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Equinox Software Update 3.0...


GKman

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I rolled mine back to 1.75

Did not like the new update or the one before it. Totally changed the way my detector works in a way I didn't care for. For those that enjoy the update I'm glad they like it. I'm waiting on the next update and will try it also. Different strokes for different folks.

 

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I was long advocating the 1.5, but have to admit 1.7.5 is probably the one I would always go back to. Didn't have a chance to test the v3 yet, but it sounds like it is more or less similar to v2. I liked the upper versions due to their ability to handle EMI better, especially after adding artificial gain circuit.  

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What are the reports about using the V3 and the 15" coil?  I think I will try it in a few hours.

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Hey gang, a buddy and I got back from a turf hunt in San Francisco yesterday.  Him with his Nox 800 , with 3.0 update, and over a year now of experience under his belt.   And me, with my Exp . II.

In the past (10 months / year ago), I had spanked him on this section of turf @ 3x to 4x to 1 in oldies.  But we wrote that off to a variety of factors :  1) He was new to the Nox at that time  2) he was still experimenting with settings,  3) The nox appeared to suffer after 7am-ish, when the "city comes to life" (EMI) in the downtown-ish area we're in.  4) That Tom was more familiar with this particular turf and type-sounds to chase, etc....   

But now that he's had a year under his belt, and now that he has the 3.0 (which he'd read has claims to be able to better combat electrical noise interference ?) we went out for another re-match on this stretch.  

This time he had nothing but issues with the Nox 😞 Even starting at 1am (when the city is "sleeping"), his machine wouldn't settle down. Even dropping the sens down to rock-bottom lowest, you could STILL hear the un-ending chatter 😞

When it came time to trade off flagged signals :  I would show him various wheaties and/or silver.  He could only pick them  up if he increased his sens. to moderately high levels.  Which, of course, left him helpless the moment he swung anywhere else (ie.: chatter and beeps everywhere else too) .  

Hence the duel went horribly.   The poor guy was shut down (he hadn't taken his SE  pro for this  trip).   And on the previous  trips last year, although he experienced chatter after 7am or so, yet  this time was totally worse.  The chatter was 2x as bad, and it existed no-matter-the-time of day.  So all he could deduce was that it had something to do with the 3.0    It didn't matter that he switched to multi-mode (such that he's not opting for any of the new features that 3.0 offers).  It is just something ingrained / hard-wired into the new update, that has now affected this EMI issue vulnerability. 

Final tallies were :  Him :  4 wheaties and a silver roosie.  Me:  24 wheaties, an IH, & 7 silvers  (6 silver dimes (mercs/roosies) and a war nickel).  

To be fair, we *could*  conclude that these horrible 3.0 results *only* manifest itself at *just* this one location.  We could try other parks in low-rise districts that don't have the cell/radio/electrical/EMI issue.  

And to be fair :  He kicked my B*tt , with his 800, earlier this year in a ghost-townsy iron-ridden  gold-rush location.  He was showing me signals that I had to admit I wouldn't have registered on -my-own.  Yet on his machine, they were coming in with "room-to-spare".   Yes,  the Exp. II is not renowned for target-see-through in iron ridden situations.  That's already a given.  A good turf machine, yes.  But a good iron-ridden ghost-town  machine :  No.  

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1 hour ago, Tom_in_CA said:

Hey gang, a buddy and I got back from a turf hunt in San Francisco yesterday.  Him with his Nox 800 , with 3.0 update, and over a year now of experience under his belt.   And me, with my Exp . II.

Tom, I’ve got a buddy that had his Nox for two years now, and he suffers terribly in finding deepie coin signals with either his Explorer SE or his Nox when the EMI is bad...here’s a perfect example of a situation/hunt where my Nox was spanking an Explorer SE......about a couple months ago, me, with my brand new Nox (only a few hrs under my belt) and my buddy with his trusted Explorer SE (years of hunts under his belt) are detecting in a high EMI zone...My buddy got so frustrated/aggravated that he couldn’t decipher a deep target in this section of park that day, while I was digging a 2 Rosie spill and other various deep wheats in this heavily pillaged Park.  The EMI at this site that day was pretty bad!  My buddy let me listen to the audio of his SE, and it was horrendous...even me, who has felt “at home” hunting deepies in EMI infested areas for years, would probably have had issues had I used his SE (or if I had brought my SE).  My Nox, on the other hand, was not nearly as noisy as his SE was...I was hunting in multi...this was before the V3 update had come out.

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When it came time to trade off flagged signals :  I would show him various wheaties and/or silver.  He could only pick them  up if he increased his sens. to moderately high levels.  Which, of course, left him helpless the moment he swung anywhere else (ie.: chatter and beeps everywhere else too) .

The opposite happened to my buddy (SE) and me (Nox) that day I wrote about above....So, your Explorer was purring like a kitten the whole time during your hunt? Not a hint of EMI? What sensitivity were you using on your Exp?

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So all he could deduce was that it had something to do with the 3.0    It didn't matter that he switched to multi-mode (such that he's not opting for any of the new features that 3.0 offers). 
 

I have been going back to sites where EMI was a real pain in the ass when I was using my SE. My other buddy (Jamflicker) had also experienced high EMI on his Etrac at these same zones at these sites we hunted together.   At most of these sites I’ve been hunting with my Nox now for the past couple of months, I’ve managed to pull many more silvers/wheats.

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It is just something ingrained / hard-wired into the new update, that has now affected this EMI issue vulnerability. 
 

I doubt it...EMI is the variable!! It can be downright nasty at times, then somewhat manageable in the same area you’re hunting....

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Final tallies were :  Him :  4 wheaties and a silver roosie.  Me:  24 wheaties, an IH, & 7 silvers  (6 silver dimes (mercs/roosies) and a war nickel).  

To be fair, we *could*  conclude that these horrible 3.0 results *only* manifest itself at *just* this one location.  We could try other parks in low-rise districts that don't have the cell/radio/electrical/EMI issue.  
 

Has there ever been a time at a site you’ve hunted where the EMI rendered your Explorer useless (even to you, being a master level Explorer hunter)?  Even though my Nox will snap, crackle, and pop due to uncontrollable EMI (no noise channel will squelch it, while in multi or single freq), I’m still able to decipher the deeper coin signals to the same abilities that I could when I used my SE all these years! I find myself doing noise cancels just as frequently with my Nox (maybe even more so because auto-noise cancel is so much better/faster on the Nox than it is on my SE).

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54 minutes ago, Raphis said:

   At most of these sites I’ve been hunting with my Nox, I’ve managed to pull many more silvers/wheats.
 


Dan you say :  "...this was before the V3 update had come out."

I'm glad you added this final sentence to your paragraph.  Because for a moment, I thought you were going to try to say that this duel-result would-be-the-same, regardless.  But since you added that last sentence :  Then I'll hold-open the hope that my buddy's horrible results were the result  of  the V3.

But this doesn't solve the dispute/debate on whether or not he can spank an Explorer, with NO v3 update.  All we can do is for him to take off the v3, and do  a re-match.  But at this point, it's sort of pointless.  As we are both now assuming that this area, is *simply*  not suitable for the Nox, no matter WHAT the settings, and no matter WHO the user is.   If you disagree, and think the Nox can spank the Explorer II here, then  bring it up 🙂

And I  don't doubt your personal tallies improved when you made the switch.  But .... I'm not so sure that the SE is the same as the II.   They had differences, as you  know.

You say :  ".....So, your Explorer was purring like a kitten the whole time during your hunt? Not a hint of EMI? What sensitivity were you using on your Exp?

Yes.  Stable.  But I suspect there was interference below the audio level.  Because sometimes a 6" deep wheatie or silver was "tough signals". And as you know, 6" is a cake-walk for explorers of any incarnation.   But on the other hand, no, no audible chatter.   

My  sens. level on the II was 18.   I'm not sure if that corresponds with the scale of the SE pro or not.   

You say:  ".... At most of these sites I’ve been hunting with my Nox, I’ve managed to pull many more silvers/wheats."

With this quote, I can imagine my friend "pulling his hair out".  It is what I predicted that , sure as heck, someone (with the V3 update, no less) could/would say "You're not doing it right", or "you must have the wrong settings", and "you need more practice".   Trust me:  For a good 5 hrs he tried everything in the book.  And to the extent that he could make one of my signals come in, yet, that was the moment that when he went to swing anywhere else, a symphony of chatter, that is indistinguishable from the signal he just coaxed out of my flagged spot.   Doh !  

So you would NOT be able to convince him that ANY Nox user (not even the mighty Dan) is going to magically come by and get a totally different result.   I would love to see my friend's face, when he reads this quote of yours.  


You say :  ".... I doubt it...EMI is the variable!! It can be downright nasty at times, then somewhat manageable in the same area you’re hunting...."

This is true.  There are times, at certain sites, where even something like my Exp. II just suffers, for seemingly no  reason.   Then another trip, I get deepies that present no problems.  Thus, sure, it's *possible* that it was just a fluke  night.  Like where someone in a nearby apartment left their blender or router/transmitter on, or the Muni bus line was doing electrical upgrades, blah blah.  Who knows ?   But .... at what point does anyone eliminate this as an excuse  ?  3 trips ?  4 trips ?  10 trips ?  At SOME point, 2 people are going to  have to conclude :  "This machine sucks  here", and "This machine will not spank  an Exp. here".

Yes this is not representative of all turf.  It could be a fluke (and exist 100% of the time there).  So to  be fair, my friend and I know a park in nearby Oakland, which is flush  with  easy pickens.  Albeit just 1940s/50s wheaties/silver (ugly orange wheaties, and common newer silver).   Perhaps my friend would want  a rematch there.  And in my experience, this park more accurately mimics low-rise anytown-USA type turf.    But better yet:  Get your  duff up here !  haha

You say :  " .... Has there ever been a time at a site you’ve hunted where the EMI rendered your Explorer useless (even to you, being a master level Explorer hunter)? "

I've been in places where I suspected that I was "not in tune" with the place.  Like ... I can't  find  silver to  save my life.  Might be the machine  (the Emi) at levels below audible.  Or it could be my personal mood.   But @ a single location, a freak event happened at a relicky site :   I started getting chatter, no matter what settings I chose.   Thus I assumed I must  have a frayed chord.  I hiked back to the truck, and made some coil swaps.  But the problem continued.  So I thought:  "Must be in the sun-ray  probe connections".  So I hiked the long way again, and swapped out the probe.  TO NO AVAIL.   Thus yes, something had happened on that singular night, that never before , and never since then, has repeated itself in that spot.   

Hence, yes, I  know what you're saying.   But at the spot in question for this topic :  It's an ongoing thing.   And only got worse once he put the v3 on there.

 

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29 minutes ago, Tom_in_CA said:


Dan you say :  "...this was before the V3 update had come out."

I'm glad you added this final sentence to your paragraph.  Because for a moment, I thought you were going to try to say that this duel-result would-be-the-same, regardless.  But since you added that last sentence :  Then I'll hold-open the hope that my buddy's horrible results were the result  of  the V3.

Tom, I’ve been hunting with V3 update a couple days after it got released, and I have not noticed anything different with my machine, with regards to EMI, than I did before the update !  

You’re making a false hypothesis in thinking V3 handles EMI worse than 2.1.12....with only a single hunt at your site.....even though your buddy’s Nox seemed to worsen while hunting the same spot as he did before hunting there....the “variable” that you will never be able to normalize for successive hunts there is the EMI, even at the same site hunting it 10x in a row!  If your buddy regresses back to 2.1.12 and hunts your spot in question 10 times, and all those 10 times the Nox is more manageable than that one hunt he did while using V3, then one may start to investigate if V3 did something with regards to frequency shifting in Multi, but I highly doubt this..

29 minutes ago, Tom_in_CA said:

But this doesn't solve the dispute/debate on whether or not he can spank an Explorer, with NO v3 update.  All we can do is for him to take off the v3, and do  a re-match.  But at this point, it's sort of pointless.

Has he “spanked” you before with his Nox in any turf???  

29 minutes ago, Tom_in_CA said:

As we are both now assuming that this area, is *simply*  not suitable for the Nox, no matter WHAT the settings, and no matter WHO the user is.   If you disagree, and think the Nox can spank the Explorer II here, then  bring it up 🙂

And I  don't doubt your personal tallies improved when you made the switch.  But .... I'm not so sure that the SE is the same as the II.   They had differences, as you  know.
 

Now you’re just being silly!!! 😹  No Explorer II has an advantage over an SE Pro....in any turf!  Certainly, if I had found this to be true, are you saying I would have found 6000 silvers and 40,000 Wheats instead of 5000/30,000 that I found over my 13 years with my SE? 😅. You will fail miserably in trying to convince me anything of the sort, so don’t even try to do that...🤔

29 minutes ago, Tom_in_CA said:

....6" is a cake-walk for explorers of any incarnation

My  sens. level on the II was 18.   I'm not sure if that corresponds with the scale of the SE pro or not.   
 

I never needed to run my Explorer over 23 sens (I did many comparisons on mybSE over the years on optimal sens), and rarely ran it below 17...

29 minutes ago, Tom_in_CA said:

You say:  ".... At most of these sites I’ve been hunting with my Nox, I’ve managed to pull many more silvers/wheats."

With this quote, I can imagine my friend "pulling his hair out".  It is what I predicted that , sure as heck, someone (with the V3 update, no less) could/would say "You're not doing it right", or "you must have the wrong settings", and "you need more practice".   Trust me:  For a good 5 hrs he tried everything in the book.  And to the extent that he could make one of my signals come in, yet, that was the moment that when he went to swing anywhere else, a symphony of chatter, that is indistinguishable from the signal he just coaxed out of my flagged spot.   Doh !  

So you would NOT be able to convince him that ANY Nox user (not even the mighty Dan) is going to magically come by and get a totally different result.   I would love to see my friend's face, when he reads this quote of yours.  

I wish your friend had been down here the day my buddy’s Explorer was “choking” on EMI , while my Nox was still able to pull oldies/deepies!  If I felt the Nox was anything “less” capable than my Explorer, I would have sold it in a heartbeat and continued using my vintage, trusted, beloved machine!  

29 minutes ago, Tom_in_CA said:
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14 minutes ago, Raphis said:

....the “variable” that you will never be able to normalize for successive hunts there is the EMI, even at the same site hunting it 10x in a row!  If your buddy regresses back to 2.1.12 and hunts your spot in question 10 times, and all those 10 times the Nox is more manageable than that one hunt he did while using V3, then one may start to investigate if V3 did something with regards to frequency shifting in Multi, but I highly doubt this..

I wish he/we had the liberty to  return 10x, to  determine "flukes" vs on-going-norm.   I know you're of the opinion that the susceptibility to EMI has NOT changed (ie.: become more vulnerable) with the V3.   But seems that others, on forum chit-chat, are not agreeing with this.  Seems that others say it makes the Nox more vulnerable.


But if you're right, and they're wrong, it's doubtful my friend will want to go back "10 times to confirm they're not 10 flukes in a row".  Because he's sickened after yesterday's results.  He probably hates the place by now  . Doh !  *At best* I can maybe get him to some other turf for some more re-matches/experiments.    But truth be told, he might  simply be more into relicky  sites and demolition.   He's not in love with turf as much as you and I enjoy turf (the strategy, the challenge, etc....)

 

14 minutes ago, Raphis said:

Has he “spanked” you before with his Nox in any turf???  

 

No.  No one has.  But then again, I've only hunted turf a few times with any Nox users.  And each time the "spankings" could be written off to other factors.  


Also, my primary hunting partner  (also a Nox fan) is simply not into turf.  He's a relicky-site guy (stage stops, etc...).  But on the other hand, he will swear up and down that the Nox will be superior in turf.  But I can't drag him out to "show me".  Because A) he's not a turf hunter, and B) he would summarily write-off any differences to skill-level in that venue.   Both  are understandable excuses.   So the jury is still out.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Raphis said:

Now you’re just being silly!!! 😹  No Explorer II has an advantage over an SE Pro....in any turf!  Certainly, if I had found this to be true, are you saying I would have found 6000 silvers and 40,000 Wheats instead of 5000/30,000 that I found over my 13 years with my SE? 😅. You will fail miserably in trying to convince me anything of the sort, so don’t even try to do that...🤔

I never needed to run my Explorer over 23 sens (I did many comparisons on mybSE over the years on optimal sens), and rarely ran it below 17...

I wish your friend had been down here the day my buddy’s Explorer was “choking” on EMI , while my Nox was still able to pull oldies/deepies!  If I felt the Nox was anything “less” capable than my Explorer, I would have sold it in a heartbeat and continued using my vintage, trusted, beloved machine!  

 

Dan, If you think the SE and the II are identical in ability, then you are breaking ranks with many long-time respected Explorer experts.   Like our mutual friend Ron.   The SE takes more coaxing to get a TID.   Whereas the II tends to get to the hint on the "first pass over it".   We can agree to disagree on this.  

 

And no, I don't doubt your tallies.  So-too is there no doubt someone out there with an Ace 250, who can likewise boast astounding results.   But we both know that we would not attribute it to the machine.  We'd attribute it to skill of user , and locations of hunts.  

 

So I say that I don't disagree with your observation of Nox vs SE in turf.  But that's not because I think "the Nox beats Exp. in turf".  It's because I have never much cared for the SE.   But as you say, it's no  use us debating this.  We can agree to disagree.    All I can say is, that if you a)  maintain that yesterday  was a fluke  (which perhaps it was),  and b) On another day, the interference won't be there,  and c) that if Dan were there "on those non-fluke days", that the Nox can spank an Exp. II, then :   This is totally flying in the face of our 3 to 4 attempts here.  And while it's true that on those earlier trips he was a Nox-rookie, yet :  We were doing flagged comparisons.  NOT "end tally counts".  So when persons are doing flagged signal comparisons, ..... where they have ample time to try every trick in the book over known spots, then :  NO amount of added time/experience is going to  change that result.

 

But let's cut the chase:  This  could be an isolated type of mineralization and/or EMI (that exists 100% of the time) that is unique to  that zone.   If you disagree, then  :  Git  your  b*tt up here 🙂  It's only a 6 hr. drive 🙂  

 

PS:  Also I forgot  to  note on the previous post that there was a singular half-block section yesterday, where all of the sudden my explorer was stuttering/static as well.  But I noticed when I walked a bit further away, it started purring again.   Versus my Nox friend, who had stutter NO MATTER WHERE HE WALKED. 

 

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56 minutes ago, Tom_in_CA said:

   But truth be told, he might  simply be more into relicky  sites and demolition.   He's not in love with turf as much as you and I enjoy turf (the strategy, the challenge, etc....)

Also, my primary hunting partner  (also a Nox fan) is simply not into turf.  He's a relicky-site guy (stage stops, etc...).  But on the other hand, he will swear up and down that the Nox will be superior in turf. 

If someone hasn’t been pounding turf as long as you have with your Explorer, no machine/person is gonna “spank” you! 🤣

Thats like asking some amateur to get in the ring with Mike Tyson!  Not a very smart move!

Hunting trashy/EMI infested turf isn’t for everyone...it requires years of patience, persistence, perseverance to become “One” with the turf to pop out oldies/deepies beyond mere mortals!! 💪🏼😆

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Dan, If you think the SE and the II are identical in ability, then you are breaking ranks with many long-time respected Explorer experts.   Like our mutual friend Ron.   The SE takes more coaxing to get a TID.   Whereas the II tends to get to the hint on the "first pass over it".   We can agree to disagree on this.  

I would agree with you that an original SE with stock “slimline” coil was insubordinate to that same SE with a ML Pro Coil, or even the original 1050 Explorer II coil, but that’s as far as I will concede.

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And no, I don't doubt your tallies.  So-too is there no doubt someone out there with an Ace 250, who can likewise boast astounding results.   But we both know that we would not attribute it to the machine.  We'd attribute it to skill of user , and locations of hunts.  

Hunting down here in our So Cal trashy parks with with a person who has used an Ace 250 for 10 years would not bag you more oldies than a person who has hunted 10 years down here with a Minelab machine...and if one remained hard-headed and didn’t want to switch to a Minelab machine where I hunt, sure, you would get a few oldies here and there, but it won’t even be close to the same person with the same time put in with a Minelab Explorer, SE, Etrac, CTX l, etc....49 out of my 50 buddies who hunt turf here over the past 13 years use a Minelab machine to hunt turf.

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PS:  Also I forgot  to  note on the previous post that there was a singular half-block section yesterday, where all of the sudden my explorer was stuttering/static as well.  But I noticed when I walked a bit further away, it started purring again.   Versus my Nox friend, who had stutter NO MATTER WHERE HE WALKED. 

 

EMI tolerance from one treasure hunter to another is definitely not equal!! Some hunters can definitely hunt in higher EMI than others can!  The brain of one hunter can still tell target from false signal at much higher noise levels than another hunter can...

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