Equinox Software Update 3.0...

[Chase Goldman]

41 minutes ago, F4ttk4tt said:

I'm not convinced that I'm not walking over  US silver coins at 8", 10" or the purported 12" considering the properties I've been on this past year and a half. I'm no novice so to preemptively answer those who will ask, the answer is Yes. In fact I've had the sensitivity set up and down the board and my detector can't see a 12" quarter but barely if I have the 15 inch coil hooked up and still the VDI registers nothing only "--". However that's not the subject I'm writing about, it's the 5khz and its EMI issue. Is it or is it not fair to say perhaps that sketchy 5 khz within the lower portion of the algorithm in Park 1 and Field 1 (in particular) being the thorn in my side? Since there's really no good use for it I'd like the ability to exclude it from these algorithms or from multi-frequency entirely. 

 

Because of the way ML marketed the Equinox, it is a common misconception that the 5 through 40 khz single frequency components are what are combined to create the multifrequency spectrum of the equinox.  That has been proven by third party spectrographic measurements to simply not be the case.  In other words, 5 khz single frequency and it's performance has nothing to do with how Multi behaves.  Do some searches on the forum (e.g., Equinox multi frequency spectrum - one example from this very thread below) and you will learn that the multi spectrums have little if anything to do with the any of the single frequency components.  They are comprised of combinations of two or three odd frequencies that do not line up with the single frequency settings.  Frankly, whatever the chosen single frequency components that comprise the various Multi frequency mode spectrums is not as important as the signal processing algorithms which also differ from mode to mode.  4 khz is also noticeably quieter than 5 khz which leads me to believe that Minelab is field testing a new signal processing algorithm to reduce noise overall and may incorporate that algorithm (not 4 khz) into a future iteration of Multi IQ.

Depth is so dependent on so many variables that it really can't be ascertained by what people think is in the ground and their anecdotal field performance.  There are no guarantees that you will find things at 12 inches and that is really pushing it for an 11 inch coil anyway in nominal ground.  I can tell you that I have had highly variable depth performance with Equinox including finds exceeding 15 inches in wet sand and nothing deeper than 3 or 4 inches after hours of repeated hunting at some highly mineralized relic sites.  The Equinox is no better or worse on simple detection depth performance than any other modern vlf out there.  They all perform about the same for a given coil size within an inch or so.  Effective depth, the depth at which a target can be accurately ID'd vs. simply detected (beeped) is the thing that varies most from detector to detector.  The Equinox seems to be above average in that regard.  HTH

 

 

[GB_Amateur]

I used the software version 3.x in the field (same park) for 57 hours.  I realized that I never used 4 kHz (and have no plans to use it, except in unwieldy EMI) so I decided to go back to v2.x and see if I noticed any difference.  My first hunt with the legacy software lasted 2 1/2 hours.  At the end of that time, walking back to the car, I remembered that I had switched software.  Nothing during the hunt reminded me of that.

I was in Park 1, ground balanced, no notching, custom 5 tones, recovery speed 5, Iron Bias F2 = 0, gain = 22.  (Those are the same settings I've been using the entire 57 hours with v3.x.)  I set up User Profile in Field 2 , defaults, except Iron Bias F2 = 0.  I only used that to investigate promising targets I found searching in Park 1.  I also investigated with Park 1 changing Iron Bias to two different values -- F2 = 9 and FE = 0.  I haven't had EMI problems since intalling v2.x last Autumn.  (And I can't say for sure that is because of v2.x.  EMI is so variable in both time and space that it's a moving target in the field.)

This is just another datapoint.  There are so many settings combinations (even if you just use the 8 modes and vary only recovery speed and Iron Bias) that it would take a Herculean effort to cover all of them.  So far from my limited experience I've found no noticeable difference for my 'stock' settings.  I'll probably hunt a few more hours in v2.x and then return to v3.x.  That transition will give me another chance to notice a change.  At least the 4 kHz single frequency option adds another bullet in the gun to fight EMI if it rears its ugly head.

[nordic]

Apologies for a bit off topic. Was looking at minelab update utility, in fact, I may have them all, just out of curiousity. There will be lots of assumptions later.
ML firmware binaries are embedded into single files, which are named same as their MD5 hash.
1.0.4 - file: ef4e7d9f630334e8d1a7d98860d488a1 - versions 1.5, 1.7.5
1.1.1 - same as 1.0.4, perhaps update to the utility only
2.0.1 - file: d950cbc77e6db16755d13f7fc04bc4d5 - versions 1.5, 1.7.5 and 2.1.12
3.0 - file: 50c28cc3311890dd718f2f64ea861f83 - all previous versions incl 3.1.3

Strangely enough, or maybe not, for example, same firmware 1.5 in binary looks different in all update utilities. Could be many reasons for it. But I am inclined to delete the folder below (on Windows) if you are rolling back and use earlier update utility (see above).
<C>:\Users\<user>\AppData\Local\Minelab\Minelab Update Utility

Their firmware config file indicates there may be 3 hardware revisions of both Nox 600 and 800, but they all receive same corresponding FW. May explain rather inconsistent Nox performance and user experience for different people. There is potentially a possibility to flash 600 with 800 firmware and other way around with some juggling with file content, file names and permissions. If I had 600, I would definitely exploit this.

Question I wanted to ask, do both 600 and 800 users have the same warning message in the update log, on Windows:
<C>:\Users\<user>\AppData\Local\Minelab\Minelab Update Utility\log_<N>
"MLB "<path>" block 3 is not of the required type "PTPSCBM1""

Looks like PTPSCBM1 is only applicable to Nox 600 and its firmware. On Nox 800 it is PTPSCBM2 and hence the warning. Could, perhaps, be the reason Nox'es need reset after updates...

Thanks!

[GB_Amateur]

5 hours ago, nordic said:

Question I wanted to ask, do both 600 and 800 users have the same warning message in the update log, on Windows:
<C>:\Users\<user>\AppData\Local\Minelab\Minelab Update Utility\log_<N>
"MLB "<path>" block 3 is not of the required type "PTPSCBM1""

I could not find that file (Windows 10).  I've updated my 800 to v3.x at least twice so far.  In that path ...\Local\ I don't see a Minelab folder at all.

[nordic]

Thank you for trying. That's strange, on both my laptops this is the path it places files.
You can also try to access it by entering %localappdata% in Run menu (or Windows+R buttons), perhaps it is somewhere else.

[F4ttk4tt]

On 9/25/2020 at 5:17 AM, Chase Goldman said:

Because of the way ML marketed the Equinox, it is a common misconception that the 5 through 40 khz single frequency components are what are combined to create the multifrequency spectrum of the equinox.  That has been proven by third party spectrographic measurements to simply not be the case.  In other words, 5 khz single frequency and it's performance has nothing to do with how Multi behaves.  Do some searches on the forum (e.g., Equinox multi frequency spectrum - one example from this very thread below) and you will learn that the multi spectrums have little if anything to do with the any of the single frequency components.  They are comprised of combinations of two or three odd frequencies that do not line up with the single frequency settings.  Frankly, whatever the chosen single frequency components that comprise the various Multi frequency mode spectrums is not as important as the signal processing algorithms which also differ from mode to mode.  4 khz is also noticeably quieter than 5 khz which leads me to believe that Minelab is field testing a new signal processing algorithm to reduce noise overall and may incorporate that algorithm (not 4 khz) into a future iteration of Multi IQ.

Depth is so dependent on so many variables that it really can't be ascertained by what people think is in the ground and their anecdotal field performance.  There are no guarantees that you will find things at 12 inches and that is really pushing it for an 11 inch coil anyway in nominal ground.  I can tell you that I have had highly variable depth performance with Equinox including finds exceeding 15 inches in wet sand and nothing deeper than 3 or 4 inches after hours of repeated hunting at some highly mineralized relic sites.  The Equinox is no better or worse on simple detection depth performance than any other modern vlf out there.  They all perform about the same for a given coil size within an inch or so.  Effective depth, the depth at which a target can be accurately ID'd vs. simply detected (beeped) is the thing that varies most from detector to detector.  The Equinox seems to be above average in that regard.  HTH

 

 

Dear Chase, much appreciated for your explanation/insight and reminder regarding ML mode algorithms. I too read the same report and learned of it's findings, but unfortunately it got lost in the ether by having read everything else prior and since that report in hopes of finding the definitive answer to: why every silver coin that I have found with the equinox came out of the ground as a surprise or unpronounst, unlike for instance, my $199 Bounty Hunter back in the day. That detector never minced its AG recognition, I knew I was going to be pulling a silver dime out of that plug when it told me and that rang true for the rest of the denominations, but that acknowledgement is a mute point because the cloud of uncertainty has evaporated and I can now say, without any doubt, that the Minelab Equinox is the Alpha detector over all other detectors and I feel it is a must that I share my revelation and who knows it might resonate.

Firstly, I no longer own a desktop PC or a laptop computer. No one in my circle of friends own these devices anymore either which left me with only one choice, my local public library if I wanted to update my detector and I went to extreme lengths,  searched high and low, chomping at the bit for anyone with access to a PC or would allow me access and covid couldn't have come at the worst time but I digress. 

Long story short: when the library did finally open and I was able to download and thus update my detector I made it a habit of lowering the sensitivity substantially on my machine after the first of the factory resets and seconds before the actual update process so not to bother others in the library with a noisy contraption and regardless of it going silent during the process and I am convinced this neutered my machine from the onset.

I did one more thing and that was the removal of the skid plate and a thorough cleaning of the search coil. I left the skid plate in my car actually. This change-up, leaving my detector unadulterated during my reverting back to V2 happened the day after I wrote to this forum. As I stated, I opted to revert back to version 2 and when it was completed I immediately went to a vacant lot, full of nails and devoid of vegetation near the library and within 2 minutes of powering up my detector I pull a 1906-O dime out from the dirt and trash as if my detector minted it then and there. There was no guessing, it rang silver and I knew it. My detector has never performed like it does now and I am utterly astonished,  no bull! 

 

 

[mn90403]

Good on the find.  You'll gain additional confidence in the detector now no matter what update you use.

Mitchel

[F4ttk4tt]

On 9/25/2020 at 7:17 AM, Chase Goldman said:

Because of the way ML marketed the Equinox, it is a common misconception that the 5 through 40 khz single frequency components are what are combined to create the multifrequency spectrum of the equinox.  That has been proven by third party spectrographic measurements to simply not be the case.  In other words, 5 khz single frequency and it's performance has nothing to do with how Multi behaves.  Do some searches on the forum (e.g., Equinox multi frequency spectrum - one example from this very thread below) and you will learn that the multi spectrums have little if anything to do with the any of the single frequency components.  They are comprised of combinations of two or three odd frequencies that do not line up with the single frequency settings.  Frankly, whatever the chosen single frequency components that comprise the various Multi frequency mode spectrums is not as important as the signal processing algorithms which also differ from mode to mode.  4 khz is also noticeably quieter than 5 khz which leads me to believe that Minelab is field testing a new signal processing algorithm to reduce noise overall and may incorporate that algorithm (not 4 khz) into a future iteration of Multi IQ.

Depth is so dependent on so many variables that it really can't be ascertained by what people think is in the ground and their anecdotal field performance.  There are no guarantees that you will find things at 12 inches and that is really pushing it for an 11 inch coil anyway in nominal ground.  I can tell you that I have had highly variable depth performance with Equinox including finds exceeding 15 inches in wet sand and nothing deeper than 3 or 4 inches after hours of repeated hunting at some highly mineralized relic sites.  The Equinox is no better or worse on simple detection depth performance than any other modern vlf out there.  They all perform about the same for a given coil size within an inch or so.  Effective depth, the depth at which a target can be accurately ID'd vs. simply detected (beeped) is the thing that varies most from detector to detector.  The Equinox seems to be above average in that regard.  HTH

 

 

Dear Chase, much appreciated for your explanation/insight and reminder regarding ML mode algorithms. I too read the same report and learned of it's findings, but unfortunately it got lost in the ether by having read everything else prior and since that report in hopes of finding the definitive answer to: why every silver coin that I have found with the equinox came out of the ground as a surprise or unpronounst, unlike for instance, my $199 Bounty Hunter back in the day. That detector never minced its AG recognition, I knew I was going to be pulling a silver dime out of that plug when it told me and that rang true for the rest of the denominations, but that acknowledgement is a mute point because the cloud of uncertainty has evaporated and I can now say, without any doubt, that the Minelab Equinox is the Alpha detector over all other detectors and I feel it is a must that I share my revelation and who knows it might resonate. Firstly, I no longer own a desktop PC or a laptop computer. No one in my circle of friends own these devices anymore either which left me with only one choice, my local public library if I wanted to update my detector and I went to extreme lengths,  searched high and low, chomping at the bit for anyone with access to a PC or would allow me access and covid couldn't have come at the worst time but I digress.  Long story short: when the library did finally open and I was able to download and thus update my detector I made it a habit of lowering the sensitivity substantially on my machine after the first of the factory resets and seconds before the actual update process so not to bother others in the library with a noisy contraption and regardless of it going silent during the process and I am convinced this neutered my machine from the onset. I did one more thing and that was the removal of the skid plate and a thorough cleaning of the search coil. I left the skid plate in my car actually. This change-up, leaving my detector unadulterated during my reverting back to V2 happened the day after I wrote to this forum. As I stated, I opted to revert back to version 2 and when it was completed I immediately went to a vacant lot, full of nails and devoid of vegetation near the library and within 2 minutes of powering up my detector I pull a 1906-O dime out from the dirt and trash as if my detector minted it then and there. There was no guessing, it rang silver and I knew it. My detector has never performed like it does now and I am utterly astonished,  no bull! 

The state of my detector as of right now and likely never to change:

Reverted back to update 2.0 from the latest version (3.0)

Park 1, 50 tones, T1: -9 to 11, volume at #2, T2: 12 to 40, volume at #20, rejected 22, 23 and sometimes 40, F2 at 6, sensitivity always above 23 (the more the better and target recognition is vastly improved compared to 20, 21 and 23). Multi with a 10khz chaser for the iffy's and the non-numerical VDI's, recovery speed at 5 and at 2 for the clean dirt, swing slow slow slow and force that target to respond with the DD coil wiggle. It's down there amongst the trash if it pings high with just a whisper. Pull out the nails as you venture deeper down the hole, you'll find it deeper than you expected.  Oh, and re- noise cancel every 20 or so minutes and ALWAYS ground balance. I cannot emphasize enough on the importance of a thorough/correct ground balance procedure. Oh, and do your noise cancel procedure correctly. 1. Coil up in the air and away from metal and dirt and hit the NC. 2. Do not hit the detect/pinpoint button until you have lowered your coil to the ground 

 

 

[F4ttk4tt]

Just now, F4ttk4tt said:

Dear Chase, much appreciated for your explanation/insight and reminder regarding ML mode algorithms. I too read the same report and learned of it's findings, but unfortunately it got lost in the ether by having read everything else prior and since that report in hopes of finding the definitive answer to: why every silver coin that I have found with the equinox came out of the ground as a surprise or unpronounst, unlike for instance, my $199 Bounty Hunter back in the day. That detector never minced its AG recognition, I knew I was going to be pulling a silver dime out of that plug when it told me and that rang true for the rest of the denominations, but that acknowledgement is a mute point because the cloud of uncertainty has evaporated and I can now say, without any doubt, that the Minelab Equinox is the Alpha detector over all other detectors and I feel it is a must that I share my revelation and who knows it might resonate. Firstly, I no longer own a desktop PC or a laptop computer. No one in my circle of friends own these devices anymore either which left me with only one choice, my local public library if I wanted to update my detector and I went to extreme lengths,  searched high and low, chomping at the bit for anyone with access to a PC or would allow me access and covid couldn't have come at the worst time but I digress.  Long story short: when the library did finally open and I was able to download and thus update my detector I made it a habit of lowering the sensitivity substantially on my machine after the first of the factory resets and seconds before the actual update process so not to bother others in the library with a noisy contraption and regardless of it going silent during the process and I am convinced this neutered my machine from the onset. I did one more thing and that was the removal of the skid plate and a thorough cleaning of the search coil. I left the skid plate in my car actually. This change-up, leaving my detector unadulterated during my reverting back to V2 happened the day after I wrote to this forum. As I stated, I opted to revert back to version 2 and when it was completed I immediately went to a vacant lot, full of nails and devoid of vegetation near the library and within 2 minutes of powering up my detector I pull a 1906-O dime out from the dirt and trash as if my detector minted it then and there. There was no guessing, it rang silver and I knew it. My detector has never performed like it does now and I am utterly astonished,  no bull! 

The state of my detector as of right now and likely never to change:

Reverted back to update 2.0 from the latest version (3.0)

Park 1, 50 tones, T1: -9 to 11, volume at #2, T2: 12 to 40, volume at #20, rejected 22, 23 and sometimes 40, F2 at 6, sensitivity always above 23 (the more the better and target recognition is vastly improved compared to 20, 21 and 22). Multi with a 10khz chaser for the iffy's and the non-numerical VDI's, recovery speed at 5 and at 2 for the clean dirt, swing slow slow slow and force that target to respond with the DD coil wiggle. It's down there amongst the trash if it pings high with just a whisper. Pull out the nails as you venture deeper down the hole, you'll find it deeper than you expected.  Oh, and re- noise cancel every 20 or so minutes and ALWAYS ground balance. I cannot emphasize enough on the importance of a thorough/correct ground balance procedure. Oh, and do your noise cancel procedure correctly. 1. Coil up in the air and away from metal and dirt and hit the NC. 2. Do not hit the detect/pinpoint button until you have lowered your coil to the ground after the noise cancel

 

 

 

[Chase Goldman]

Um, ok.  Your approach sounds a little overly complex and rigid to me (noise cancel every 20 minutes? Keep sensitivity above 23 always?) as I encounter a wide variety and range of detecting situations with multiple environmental, ground, and target varieties that no single setup works for all those situations (for example, lowering sensitivity well below default in thick iron situations often enables shallow non-ferrous targets to pop out of the ferrous muck and I like to use different modes to interrogate iffy targets)...but who am I to argue with your success?

I do agree with some of your points like taking the time to do a proper ground balance.  But for me, dialing back to 2.0 just means I lost the quiet 4 khz option ML so graciously added to the Swiss-Army-Knife-like Equinox tool kit.  Have fun and Happy Hunting!