Ace Apex Production Announcement

[Jeff McClendon]

If the Apex is even a very good detector, it will out perform the Vanquish in my dirt. That nagging, impossible to ground balance, ground feedback noise is a real issue and if you have the 340 you are stuck with listening to low iron tones (which are ground noise) around every target and at the end of every sweep unless you disc out the entire iron and part of the small gold jewelry target range = -2,-1 0. If you have a 440 or 540 you can work around it with the accept/reject functions, but using the pinpoint mode or iron check (horseshoe button) brings the ground feedback problem right back when you need it the least while checking for iron............... Then again, even the 340 outperforms so many detectors right out of the box that I have used and actually really liked on things like accurately detecting targets, DUH!!!!..........which is a huge issue for all of those detectors made by some American companies that have gone belly up and for the two still left in Texas, if the targets are even slightly deep.

Sorry Chuck, I thought you were just concerned with waterproof/not waterproof issues which Simon mentioned. Recovery speed is a big issue for me and is for you too from your post. Having adjustable tone pitches, adjustable tone breaks, adjustable volume for all tones, adjustable recovery speed, iron bias, an adjustable threshold tone, full target ID segment notching, noise cancelling (sounds like the Equinox doesn't it) waterproofing and maybe one step beyond the Equinox- a somewhat threshold based all metal mode are all features that I would expect of the Garret AT Series when it is produced and released. If I can still walk, swing a detector, get down on my knee or knees, retrieve a target and get back up without needing assistance, I will buy one of those detectors.

 

[Jeff McClendon]

32 minutes ago, phrunt said:

My primary interest with detecting is gold, I'd like an all metal threshold on one and a higher frequency if possible but Garrett have already dismissed that saying anything over 20kHz is fluff. 

In the same interview Garrett contradicted themselves by saying higher frequencies are really important for high mineralization and also said the frequency range of the APEX SMF went above 20 kHz. Who knows????? Garrett is following Minelab's example and obfuscating so that we will all have something to talk about.

[GB_Amateur]

10 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

In the same interview Garrett contradicted themselves by saying higher frequencies are really important for high mineralization and also said the frequency range of the APEX SMF went above 20 kHz. Who knows????? Garrett is following Minelab's example and obfuscating so that we will all have something to talk about.

In another recent thread (regarding Vanquish Multi-IQ frequencies) it was mentioned that White's used to "tell all", at least along these lines.  White's (and Garrett, for that matter) were formed back when hacking was either less prevalent or more tolerated.  Now it's rampant as Simon has shown us with ads selling ML GPZ7000 "new" for under $1k, and many more examples.  I don't know if that is what has led to such secrecy and microchipping of coils, etc., but probably it's been a contributor.

"Proof is in the pudding" so we'll hopefully know soon how the Apex works on natural gold in different mineralization.  Then all this secrecy will be forgotten.  (Ha, ha!)

[Chase Goldman]

51 minutes ago, phrunt said:

maybe they think they'll improve their MF tech before they release a new flagship MF VLF.

Probably the most likely reason.  It would torque a lot of people off if they offered a $700 - $800 MF detector and the implementation was a miss.

[Chase Goldman]

58 minutes ago, phrunt said:

I also don't want to buy their entry level model when they just have to be making a better one,

I should have included this part of your sentence in the above "quote" - just wanted to say, how do you know you wouldn't get the pleasant surprise of the Garrett "Vanquish" equivalent like you did with the ML?  If Multi IQ was a first generation approach at MF and someone else owned the MF market besides ML, I could see a world where the Vanquish might be released before the Equinox.  After all, it really not a good marketing approach to undermine your flagship sales after the fact by releasing an 80 to 90% capable, but much less expensive model compared to your flagship.  You would much rather give them the 80 - to 90 % then entice them to also buy the Flagship that completely closes the gap.  That would have been Vanquish First and Equinox 600 then Equinox 800.  You have to keep it under wraps though so that you don't have a bunch of people simply waiting for that Apex Pro to come out or whatever it is going to be called.

[Steve Herschbach]

I'm not sure people are getting just how simple the Apex is. See this thread.

You really only have one mode. The one you are in. Choose your frequency, sensitivity, ground balance... you are basically done. Choose a discrimination pattern and go detect. No threshold, no iron bias, no recovery speed.... nothing really. Just frequency, ground balance, sensitivity. Unlike Equinox or Vanquish, there are no mode differences to consider other than disc pattern.

[Dances With Doves]

8 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Finally! That's what I mean, it's just an entry level detector.  If I'm going to buy one I want the model I won't want to upgrade.  I know if I buy it I will want the better one as soon as it comes out so buying an Apex will be a waste of money, my detector long term storage cupboard is already overflowing.  There is absolutely no point me owning an Apex and I suspect many of you will feel the same if you buy one, especially when they just have to be coming out with a better model at some point.  I don't see any reason an Equinox owner will be buying one other than to try out  new toy.

I think they've done a good job with it, I like the design much better than the Vanquish.  Minelab stuffed up there as they were attacking the Ace market so they made the Vanquish look like an Ace.  Now it's going to instantly look like an older model Ace nobody is going to buy anymore.  I am interested to see how well they've implemented their Multi frequencies, if they've even matched the Vanquish performance I'd be very impressed and then hopeful their better model is going to be something worth getting.  I really like my Vanquish and I'm glad I own it, I'd rather they put it in a Equinox style housing rather than an old Ace housing though.  Minelab got complacent there, thinking Garrett was doing what all other US manufacturers have been doing.... nothing!

With there  marketing and  it being MF and cheap it will   probably be the  best selling machine In North  America for the next   year.

[Chase Goldman]

31 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I'm not sure people are getting just how simple the Apex is. See this thread.

You really only have one mode. The one you are in. Choose your frequency, sensitivity, ground balance... you are basically done. Choose a discrimination pattern and go detect. No threshold, no iron bias, no recovery speed.... nothing really. Just frequency, ground balance, sensitivity. Unlike Equinox or Vanquish, there are no mode differences to consider other than disc pattern.

Technically there are two MF modes on Apex.  MF and Salt MF (analogous to Beach Multi IQ on Equinox) but yes, it is simple.  It is funny because Vanquish doesn't even have an explicit, dedicated salt beach mode and one could actually argue that it is technically a single mode detector also with underlying differences in recovery speed and the preset discrimination patterns making the distinction between Jewelry, Relic, and Coin modes.

[Jeff McClendon]

26 minutes ago, phrunt said:

 I don't see any reason an Equinox owner will be buying one other than to try out  a new toy.

 

Simon, this is metal detecting. Here in America (without getting political) buying US products is a big deal and having a TEXAS made detector compete successfully against the latest and greatest from a non-US company is also a big deal. I own three Equinox detectors currently and a Vanquish 340.............. I would be happy to own a Garrett APEX even to just support Garrett with a sale, especially if is it is better than the whole current Ace line the Vanquish possibly and the AT Pro. I already know it is better than the &%^*@! AT GOLD.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

2 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

I already know it is better than the &%^*@! AT GOLD.

Maybe not. Does Apex 20 kHz or MF silent search "no disc" mode match or exceed the 18 kHz threshold based all metal mode in the AT Gold? I'd not bet on it.