Apex Unbiased Field Testing

[Steve Herschbach]

28 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

operationally, No. The Apex does have built in wireless and the 440 doesn't. It also has 5 tones instead of three on the Vanquish.........

I was talking performance, but for features and performance we step up to Vanquish 540 at $369 and now we have industry standard low latency Bluetooth instead of proprietary (although faster) wireless capability. And five tones.

But performance is all that matters. Can the Apex detect deeper than a $279 Vanquish 440? Separate targets better? Do better on a saltwater beach? Two multifrequency modes and four single frequency options - somebody do a video of an Apex doing just one thing clearly better than a Vanquish 440. I'd even go $199 Vanquish 340 were it not for the coil size difference, and even with the smaller coil I'm betting on the Vanquish.

I'm pretty serious - as Simon asked earlier - does the Apex even have a solid claim to outperforming an Ace 400 anywhere but the beach?

Mind you all - I still think the Apex is a great little detector with a great feature set. I just like the design and the controls. But between Simplex and Vanquish it has to show a performance edge somewhere on some target over lower priced models, otherwise you are just buying a pretty package.

Let's face it, pull Simplex and Vanquish out of the equation and the Apex looks really great in the under $500 segment. Those newer models in just the last year really let the air out of its tire when it comes to the price/performance ratio.

What I really wonder now is - how would a $424 Apex fare against my $399 Time Ranger Pro. I'm assuming the Apex has the edge on the salt beach, but otherwise I'm betting on TRP for low conductors and a push on the silver.

[Steve Herschbach]

25 minutes ago, Bohemia Miner said:

I was under the impression that those "Pre-set" modes come with a certain amount of disc.  Am I wrong?

They do until you press the horseshoe button in any mode, which instantly converts any mode to "all metal." First thing I always do in any mode - hit the horseshoe, 50 tones, detect!

[Jeff McClendon]

2 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I was talking performance, but for features and performance we step up to Vanquish 540 at $369 and now we have industry standard low latency Bluetooth instead of proprietary (although faster) wireless capability. And five tones.

But performance is all that matters. Can the Apex detect deeper than a $279 Vanquish 440? Separate targets better? Do better on a saltwater beach? Two multifrequency modes and four single frequency options - somebody do a video of an Apex doing just one thing clearly better than a Vanquish 440. I'd even go $199 Vanquish 340 were it not for the coil size difference, and even with the smaller coil I'm betting on the Vanquish.

I'm pretty serious - as Simon asked earlier - does the Apex even have a solid claim to outperforming an Ace 400 anywhere but the beach?

Mind you all - I still think the Apex is a great little detector with a great feature set. I just like the design and the controls. But between Simplex and Vanquish it has to show a performance edge somewhere on some target over lower priced models, otherwise you are just buying a pretty package.

Let's face it, pull Simplex and Vanquish out of the equation and the Apex looks really great in the under $500 segment. Those newer models in just the last year really let the air out of its tire when it comes to the price/performance ratio.

What I really wonder now is - how would a $424 Apex fare against my $399 Time Ranger Pro. I'm assuming the Apex has the edge on the salt beach, but otherwise I'm betting on TRP for low conductors and a push on the silver.

Since I have used and owned the Vanquish, Simplex and F19/Time Ranger Pro and used an ACE 400 the answer is no. I would rather detect with a Vanquish for depth and ID accuracy, the Simplex for all of its features and different detecting modes and the F19/TRP for is awesome all metal mode and decent discrimination mode and fast recovery speed. 

Check out Abenson's second video where he compares the APEX to the F19.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

Too many videos too quickly to keep up! Great video, especially since the F19 is not known as a silver depth demon. Looks about the same on depth, with clear win for F19/TRP on separation.

Depth on the Apex looks to be "ok", but the separation is lagging for sure.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

39 minutes ago, phrunt said:

As long as you ignore the target ID's on the screen 🙂

When I say anything about a detector is "ok" that's not a huge compliment! 

I take target id numbers in videos with a grain of salt. I think Equinox has some of the best target id ever. People watching videos think otherwise - jumping all over the place. With deep targets numbers get "iffy" with all detectors. The secret is the eye - hand - mind coordination. I sweep a target multiple times. I know in my mind when my swing has "connected" properly and given me a good target id. Other swings I can tell I'm off a hair, and it screws up the target id. There is one number I quickly zero in on as being the "right" one, and I toss the rest. Jumpy numbers do not mean the job is not getting done accurately. But I agree beginners in particular want to see a single number that varies as little as possible. And the fact is all detectors do deliver those, but then the numbers begin to break down with depth. The "correct' number gets mixed with other numbers, and the deeper you get, the rarer the "correct" number gets. At the edge of detection the "true" number may only come up occasionally, yet the skilled detectorist "feels" in their bones that they connected and they lock onto that number. It's another one of those hard to define skills where certain experienced detectorists combine swing speed and coil control to eke that proper id out of the ground deeper than others manage.

But the commentary by the users shows they do not disagree with you. The machine is not getting kudos for target id accuracy so far.

[Dances With Doves]

3 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

So basically we have an Ace with a salt beach mode. So I wonder, Ace Apex with 6” x 11” coil at $424 versus Vanquish 440 with 7” x 10” coil at $279...... is there anything at all an Apex can do better than the 440 for $145 extra?

 It can get you a pin pointer  from Garrett if you make a nice find with it.

[abenson]

Last night I took the Apex out to a local park for about an hour (remember I have bad ground). Boy was I lost in all the noise that thing was making and I know my way around metal detectors pretty well. Could have been EMI could have been the ground minerals or iron/junk in the ground I don't know. I tried everything, different modes, sensitivity down, different KHz, turned it off and on, etc. It definitely is not this bad at my house. I contacted another person who I know has the Apex to see if they had experienced anything like that themselves, haven't heard back yet. But I also came across this video of the Apex doing the same thing.

So my question at this point after watching the above video, hearing the makers comments, and experiencing a similar situation. Is the Apex even a beginner/intermediate metal detector? I can't imagine a beginner going through the same issues and not wrapping the thing around a tree. I plan to go back tonight and figure out what was going on. I'm taking along the Equinox as well to compare some signals.

[Dances With Doves]

I don't want a machine that has me lost in a sea of noise.It is like hearing a language you don't  understand.You need to understand your machine  to a good degree  to have success.

[Steve Herschbach]

22 minutes ago, abenson said:

Last night I took the Apex out to a local park for about an hour (remember I have bad ground). Boy was I lost in all the noise that thing was making and I know my way around metal detectors pretty well. Could have been EMI could have been the ground minerals or iron/junk in the ground I don't know. I tried everything, different modes, sensitivity down, different KHz, turned it off and on, etc. It definitely is not this bad at my house. I contacted another person who I know has the Apex to see if they had experienced anything like that themselves, haven't heard back yet. But I also came across this video of the Apex doing the same thing.

So my question at this point after watching the above video, hearing the makers comments, and experiencing a similar situation. Is the Apex even a beginner/intermediate metal detector? I can't imagine a beginner going through the same issues and not wrapping the thing around a tree. I plan to go back tonight and figure out what was going on. I'm taking along the Equinox as well to compare some signals.

One thing for sure - multifrequency “listens” to multiple frequencies, and the problems with electrical interference therefore skyrocket. I found machines like the V3i to be completely non-functional in some areas due to EMI, especially buried power lines. And I know that extreme effort went into EMI mitigation with Equinox. If Garrett took a more casual approach then EMI could be a real Achilles Heel for the Apex. Not saying it is, but certainly something to be looking for. If EMI there should be obvious noise level differences using different single frequency options. If the interference is the same in all frequencies, then something else is up.

[jmaryt]

5 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

operationally, No. The Apex does have built in wireless and the 440 doesn't. It also has 5 tones instead of three on the Vanquish.........

For the person who said the APEX vs Equinox was apples to oranges.......both detectors were being used with all metals accepted and the Equinox for instance was being used in its most basic dry land configuration, Park 1 multi. Apex was in zero mode multi. You can't get much closer in comparison except to put them both in their beach modes. The Simplex that Abenson used was not even maxed out and had a smaller coil than the APEX. The F19 had a slightly smaller coil too..........

Again, I was not impressed with anything operation wise on the APEX and those testers are some of the best on the internet  in my opinion.

before i purchased my vanquish 540 pro-pack,i  suggested that "possibly",in time the 540
would be  a genuine "sleeper" as a direct result of it's performance potential, price point, and what it has demonstrated
in the field so far. tom dankowski's response, and i quote was rather interesting.He said"  that 'he would "declare that the 340 is the "true"
"sleeper" because of it's "price point" AND the fact that it is true "multi-iq". i tend to agree with this in principle, because the 340
has  the "wallop" of multi-iq with none of the frills.just a simple straightforward design that gan get it done in real time! 
dankowski was instrumental in testing "protos" and bringing forward the vanquish.. he also stated, the only thing that basically differentiated the 540,and the 440,from the 340,is the size of the coil which is the smaller 8" coil.

(h.h.!)
j.t.