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First Hunt With The Ace Apex


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5 hours ago, phrunt said:

I guess my nut works differently.  If I don't have the best detector I always want it.  I don't like settling for second, third or in the Apex's case something like the 10th best detector on the market.   I always end up upgrading.  I'd rather skip the steps of gradually getting to the top and just start there and grow into the machine, it ends up cheaper too.  Often a fair bit cheaper if they start buying coils too for these lesser models.

I imagine most people that commented wouldn't be satisfied using the Apex as their only detector.  Then you say it's because you're not at that beginner level..... neither will the person in question if they put effort in and get out there using their detector, and if they start at the top they've got nowhere to go, don't need to learn new detectors as they upgrade, they don't need an upgrade.  They don't need to wonder if they'll do better with a better machine.

Yes it's technically an upgrade over the Ace, and so it should be when the Ace was release in 2004, that's 16 years for an electronic product.  People need to think outside of detectors for a bit and think of other products that use similar features.  Wireless audio has been standard on things for donkeys years, things that can cost $20 have wireless audio via blue tooth.  It's not a big technological jump, it's standard in other electronics, detector companies just take us for a ride selling outdated technology as there is so little competition.

The Ace came out in 2004 and has had some minor changes over it's life with the biggest adding target ID instead of notches I guess so should it even be sold anymore or should the Apex be the new entry level. Then their detectors are from 2020 not over a decade ago.  Detector companies are mostly all guilty of selling old products.   You can buy one new and you're swinging a retro detector with vintage electronics 🙂

I cant think of any other electronics products that can sit on the shelf in a shop for 5-10-15 or even 20 years and still be a current model other than some detectors.

Is the Apex a good detector? Yes, it's a good first detector.  Would you want to stick with it as you get more advanced with your detecting? Not likely.  That answers the question.  Pay double the Apex price and get something good that you won't need to upgrade as you develop in your detecting, maybe that'll be the AT Pro Multi if it comes out if you insist on buying Garrett for where it's made rather than it's performance. :wacko:  Maybe Garrett will come out with the At Pro Multi and be the King of the market, then I'll want one!

Simon -

The context I answered your question was from the perspective of the typical Ace user.  Not you nor me.  This person typically does not have unlimited means to own mini - monsters or detectors north of $5K US or to get a Vanquish for primarily coinshooting a favorite football pitch site or in my case to get a Tarsacci simply to see what it can do, not because I need one.  They are looking for value,  2 x $400 is a lot of money to them.  The are looking for a performance/feature bump and ease of use and have jobs that limit their detecting time in the field, so don't have the luxury of learning the ins and outs of a top end detector even if they could afford one.  Simply looking to take their detecting to the next level but not necessarily to the pinnacle of detecting, so it IS likely they will only stick with Apex.  It will meet their needs even if it wouldn't meet ours.  They are not detector nerds and they are probably brand loyal to a fault.  They may see no need to go beyond the AT Max.

They are not you and me, but they are likely the majority of detectorists out there.  You understand and focus on the detector not the typical detectorist and that is why you have trouble understanding why they WOULDN'T pay double the Apex price for a better detector.  We are the outliers.

Chase

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13 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

We are the outliers.  (emphasis mine)

That is true in many more ways than just what detectors we prefer and buy.  I don't say that to be funny, but if someone wants to interpret it that way, it's probably justified.  😏

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    You mental outliers must also be independently wealthy!💰 With finds, or some other means!

   But if you gotta be addicted to something, detectors and detecting is the healthiest of all the choices! Keep up the good work fellas! You can always sell your excess inventories to us junior junkies!👍👍

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Hi , I received the Apex last week and did 4 outings with it , total around 5 hours detecting upto now ... I will write a specific thread on this but for the moment I am quite disappointed with this machine . I do not like the audio , the sounds on targets are not stable unless the targets are shallow. The VDIS are very jumpy unless the targets are shallow . Also many false signals between the targets . I compared the Apex with a Vanquish 540 in the same area and the Vanquish outperforms the Garrett . Much more precise and stable on targets etc ...

On the other hand the Apex mechanical design is good I like the thin control box , the headphones are very well made. But again the Equinox , Vanquish , Deus/Orx , T2  ,Tesoro's audios are much better than the Apex. Just my opinion as usual... I will give more details later in the new thread ...

Like Abenson I dont like writing negative things on a machine . However for the moment I am not really happy with the Apex ... 😒

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Yea I decided I'm going to sell mine. I just don't need another mid-priced detector. Great for urban park hunting but I just don't do much of that anymore and when I do I only dig deep signals. In that case the deeper signals are out of range for the Apex. Probably through it on one of the Facebook Garrett Apex user forums since that's where the Garrett fans hang out.

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4 hours ago, phrunt said:

It's becoming more clear with the more people that buy it that aren't Garrett Fanboys that the machine is Porsche look-a-like with an old clapped out VW motor in it.

Yeah, but no one should be expecting a Porsche at that price, to be fair, so that should have been clear without any reviews.  And even Garrett didn't try to pass it off as an AT level detector.  So let's keep that in perspective while throwing the vegetables at it.

Also, I have now seen two definite thumbs down reviews (one of those frankly showed ok real world hunt performance - but I get why the machine isn't bringing anything to the table for that detectorist) and one "meh" from D/P members reviewing the Apex.  Not exactly a sample size you can hang your hat on.

Again, cheapest multiple selectable frequency unit on the market.  Not expecting much from the first gen Garrett multi vs. 4th+ gen multi from ML that resides in Vanquish.  Multi in the Apex just gives it more salt beach stability then any of their other VLFs.  I never expected it to outperform Vanquish in multi with its more advanced signal processing and iron bias algorithms.  Still have not seen a lot of hunt videos of it being used in the various SF modes, especially 20 khz. 

At least it can be ground balanced, something the Vanquish has a lot of trouble handling in my soil, so I can only get away with an Equinox for most situations.  Garrett definitely has work to do on advancing the multi signal processing and overall recovery speed, delivering true all metal (at least in SF) would be good and providing a little more sophistication and customizing in the tones departement when they roll out the Apex's higher end successor.

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I was hoping for some multi frequency competition from Garrett. But as it stands right now they aren't even close to what Minelab has. I honestly can't tell much of a difference in performance between multi and single frequency on the Apex. Yes its stable in MS on the beach but the Vanquish is still a better machine for less money. IMO Garrett should have waited until they had something better, instead of rushing a multi frequency to market just to say they had one. The thing that disappoints me is that it doesn't even give the Vanquish a run for the money. The Apex is a bit better at separation in iron if you have it setup right than the Vanquish but not by much. On the other hand the Vanquish is deeper and more stable. Maybe they will surprise us all with an AT Apex that will really shine. In the mean time I'm waiting for the Equinox 1000. 

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2 hours ago, phrunt said:

If Garrett released a Porsche at the Apex price they could take control of the market quickly.

That something that ML can't even do at this point so of course Garrett can't either.

2 hours ago, phrunt said:

All the Apex needed to have was Vanquish performance with Apex features and design to really make a statement.

Agreed.  They did not do this, but Vanquish has flaws that ML should never have let out the door such as fixed GB and NO single frequency mode whatsoever, which could be beneficial under certain circumstances (I'd take that quiet 4 khz mode they just released for the Equinox at say anywhere from 10 khz to 14 khz).  The former is a must have to provide site independent versatility, the latter is a nice to have.  Neither machine meets my needs even as a bare bones backup machine in my local area.

I think that if Nokta had released Simplex with multiple selectable frequencies at about the same price point, they would have a killer machine on their hands and that would have bought them more time to deliver MF.

Of the three (Apex, Vanquish, Simplex) if I had to go with one as my value-based backup machine - it would probably be Simplex at this point.

2 hours ago, phrunt said:

Garrett were careful with their marketing claims not to make the detector sound like it's something it's not, but their paid sponsored hyped up crazy promoters were not so reserved.  So I take that as Garrett were hyping it up, they're the ones that recruit these clowns, they do them no favours.

Except generating significant sales.  Just goes to show you that you don't have to have much credibility to generate sales in this business.  I bet the Ace series is still a moneymaker for Garrett and that just probably took a jump with the Apex release, otherwise Garrett wouldn't entertain the insanity if it were hurting sales, which it doesn't appear to be.

Would really like to know the gross detector sales numbers between Garrett and ML in the US.

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11 hours ago, abenson said:

I was hoping for some multi frequency competition from Garrett. But as it stands right now they aren't even close to what Minelab has. I honestly can't tell much of a difference in performance between multi and single frequency on the Apex. Yes its stable in MS on the beach but the Vanquish is still a better machine for less money. IMO Garrett should have waited until they had something better, instead of rushing a multi frequency to market just to say they had one. The thing that disappoints me is that it doesn't even give the Vanquish a run for the money. The Apex is a bit better at separation in iron if you have it setup right than the Vanquish but not by much. On the other hand the Vanquish is deeper and more stable. Maybe they will surprise us all with an AT Apex that will really shine. In the mean time I'm waiting for the Equinox 1000. 

Yes I agree with you Abenson the Apex is faster than the Vanquish and the Equinox but approximative in the audio signals  with jumpy IDs  when the targets are a little deep. I largely prefer the little slower MLs which give very accurate/reliable audio and VDIs informations this even at depth . I have compared the Apex with a Vanquish 540 up to now , but I am sure that the 340 / 240euros will be much better than the Apex / 520euros from the audio/VDI accuracy standpoint. Knowing that the audio is the most important thing for a detector ..

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