Interesting Results With Nokta Af28 Coil On The Multi Kruzer

[bigtim1973]

Received my AF28 coil in and put it on my kruzer.

I started out in 3 tone because that is what I would have normally ran anyway but, that was before I tried it out. 

No more 3 tone for me.

I have the Fe tone set at 2 and sensitivity set to 85 and in the standard 15khz freq for starters.

Separation is very good with this machine with set up of the settings with this coil.  I am very satisfied with it. It has about the same ability to separate as the smaller 9.5x5 DD coil. Very impressed. 

But moving on with the 11 inch coil,  I discovered a quirk when running the coil over a the 7 inch dime and 11 inch nickel while in 3 tone. The machine did not want to hit on the deeper coins. It would try to null out. I cranked the sensitivity up to about 93 and although it would respond to something being in the hole, the ID for both coins were off.  I was starting to get disappointed.

I then swapped freq to 5 and then to 19 as well and was getting similar results. 

So I tried it in 2 tone and whammo....it nailed the deeper coins in all 3 frequencies with the sensitivity turned way down as well. Then I tried 4 tone and the same thing happened. The machine responded very well with the deep coins too. 

Very happy now.

But I can see if someone got this coil and tried to test it just in 3 tones how someone could get discouraged with the set up. 

I have read a lot about 3 tone with the multi kruzer and leaving the sensitivity down below 90 because it you are supposed to be able to get more target information and signal analysis while the Kruzer is in 3 tone. 

I found that advice to be total bull$hix. 

anyways, if you want more depth with a kruzer with the 11 inch coil with multi tones your gonna have to run in 2 tone or 4 tone because 3 tone is not going to cut it.

Anfibio / Kruzer - Waterproof DD Search Coil - 28 cm / 11" (AF28)

Part Number : 20000825
Description : Anfibio / Kruzer - Waterproof DD Search Coil
Size : 28 cm / 11"

Includes coil cover and coil mounting hardware. Price $159.00 Website link

[kac]

The 11" I returned had problems in Gen Mode which is unfiltered raw signal. The fall off on my penny and dime were identical to the 7" coil. I also had same results with the high gain modes 2 tone and 4 tone. In the field I had trouble pinpointing with it as the center seemed to drift on me. I don't typically use pinpoint mode on the machine because I am a lefty and the pinpoint button is awkward to hit so I X my targets. This works well on ALL my machines and even with the Nel Big which is 17" wide.

I did go over the same small area that I hit with the MK with 11" coil with my AT Pro and found I had missed 2 quarters and a copper penny that were maybe 4" deep at best.

Simple air test should show the 11" having at least a couple inches over the 7" and that was not the case with the one I had.

Maybe you were fortunate enough to get a good coil or a different batch, I have no idea. Glad it is working for you.

[Khameleon21]

Interesting.  I run mine in 3 tone as well, with the stock coil.  I really haven't spent enough time with it and was going off of other post recommends.  I also have read that 3 tone with gain 89 or lower has better separation.

Do you feel that if you still avoid 3 tone with your other coil?  Or are you finding this is only noticeable with the AF28? 

Thanks for the info.

[kac]

I just did a quikie test with all modes at 99 gain and my recent 41 merc dime, stock 7x11 coil @ 14khz

Gen Mode numbers drop at around 7"

3 tone the id is accurate to 7" and then I lose the target.

2 tone, 4 tone and beach mode numbers are accurate at 7" but drop off and I just lose the target at 9"

Deep mode numbers are accurate at 7, drop off but i can hear the target to 10"

I typically run my gain at 99 on gen mode for most relic hunting or in quiet ground.

3 tone I will run as high as 89 but usually less than that if I start to pick up chatter. I notice a loos in recovery speed when higher than 89 in 3 tone and use 3 tone almost exclusively in trashy areas like parks where it excells.

2 tone and 4 tone I tend to run them as high as I can go but back off if I have too much chatter from ground conditions. 2 tone is a good relic hunting mode especially if you set your iron audio low and disc at 0 so you can hear whats going on in the ground. I have used 4 tone but find it too busy for my brain to keep up with targets. It might be ok in very low trash areas but I prefere the other modes.

Deep mode I reserve at max gain, 0 disk and iron audio at 2 and use it as a quick target check when running in Gen mode as I find it easier to access the arrow keys than mucking around with the EUD mode that I never got the hang of.

Beach mode I have yet to try but haven't yet and usually do my beach hunting in the off season. Was hoping to have the 11" coil for that.

[kac]

I forgot to mention I am using  last update 1.04-1.07. No idea if that makes any difference.

[bigtim1973]

4 hours ago, Khameleon21 said:

Interesting.  I run mine in 3 tone as well, with the stock coil.  I really haven't spent enough time with it and was going off of other post recommends.  I also have read that 3 tone with gain 89 or lower has better separation.

Do you feel that if you still avoid 3 tone with your other coil?  Or are you finding this is only noticeable with the AF28? 

Thanks for the info.

I have not used the snowshoe style stock coil much.......I put the 9.5x5 coil on for the past couple of outings. X5

So  I am gonna just avoid 3 tone myself probably from now on for areas that had potential deep good targets. 

However for normal park hunting and around old houses and all I am sure 3 tone is good

I have noticed that above 90 on sensitivity it does tend to do something to the circuit that allows for better ID on deeper coins. 

But this other stuff about 3 tone and 89 sensitivity being able to pick stuff out better as far as I am concerned is just a total waste of effort in my ground. It may work in other parts of the USA but not here where I live.

[kac]

Really depends on the ground conditions. I try to run my machines as deep as ground conditions allow. If it chatters too much then I drop it down till it settles down. I find it too difficult to recognize a target if the machine is just squawking away and numbers are all over the place.

Suprising part is the Gold Racer @56khz with the stock 5x10 dd will hit a dime at 10" with a rock solid id in air test and mild soil (ground at <30) with a faint tone. The MK can only do that in deep mode with the 7x11 coil and in Gen Mode in any of it's frequencies but you may not have an id at all. Granted the MK with the lower frequencies will do better in higher mineraliztion with ground in the 60-90's relative to the gold machine. In other words in most ground conditions around me where ground is 60-90's and on average mid 80's low 90's the MK does go deeper.

The 11" should allow greater depth which would translate the ability to run the machine at a lower gain and have a smoother machine at similar depth of the stock coil without pushing it. The 11" should be more stable in that respect. In cases of high mineralization the narrower coil may punch through that and give you hints of targets that may otherwise get smothered by a larger coil's footprint.

In a park with a lot of can slaw, pull tabs etc, the 7x11 in 3 tone with a gain in the 70-80's will have fantastic recovery speed and the narrower coil will help in sniping out targets between the trash, 2 of my gold rings where in that situation. An 11" coil would be better in field use and I was hoping beaches to hit towel lines and some wet sand without being too big as to lose small jewelry and be effected by the salt and still have enough depth to hit some of the wash.

I wish Nokta would come out with an update that calms down the 2 tone and 4 tone so they are more in line with the 3 tone mode and keep deep mode as it is. Right now there is little difference between 2 tone and deep mode.

I feel 3 tone and gen mode really make the Kruzer shine as the machine seems so well balanced. Other modes are just very tweaky and I believe that is why many sell the machines and move on.

[Steve Herschbach]

14 hours ago, kac said:

Really depends on the ground conditions.

I agree. And EMI.

[Sven1]

Another thing, the different modes cover different hunting situations. All modes are not the same in the way of recovery speed, depth, and separation. Each mode has preset perimeters. And then throw into the mix the different coil diameters and what they are capable of....

[JCR]

I agree with Sven1. I have built a test garden over the years to help me understand how each detector works and performs under different parameters. It really helps when you are out in the field to know how to best meet the site conditions. When you can't get in an actual hunt, the test garden always provides for fun and a chance to learn.