10 Things I Like And 5 Things Don't Like About The Garrett Apex

[Steve Herschbach]

11 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

I appreciate you and many others trying to help me since on the surface it would seem that I have no clue how to operate a metal detector or how to diagnose a possible issue. A few on this forum who live out here and detect in similar soil conditions like Abenson and Steve H, know exactly what I am describing and why many otherwise excellent detectors simply don’t work worth a damn here.

I know you know your stuff Jeff… that’s why I pay attention to your posts!  You are a very demanding user in an area with extreme mineralization, and I am not surprised at all by your commentary. It’s what I’d expect for the conditions you face. A better comparison performance wise might be the White’s DFX, another mild mannered multi that did not obsolete single frequency detectors. Even BBS and FBS I took a pass on in extreme mineral ground, actually preferring single frequency. Equinox set the bar high in that regard, and people have already forgotten that multi does not always mean maximum performance. Just like you have different levels of single frequency performance, there are different levels of multi performance. Anyone not testing an Apex on a saltwater beach is missing a big part of the equation here.

I’m pleased with the Apex as a first effort from Garrett, and I think they placed it where it is in their lineup for all the reasons you mentioned. It was not marketed as an Equinox equal, and expecting it to be that is expecting too much. It obviously can suit people well for it’s intended uses, as attested to here by other users. I think it does offer a great alternative to other detectors in its price range, and look forward to seeing what Garrett can do with a higher end version of the machine.

[Jeff McClendon]

1 hour ago, kac said:

Apex handles the iron infestation here very well so not sure what you mean. As for falsing I had that issue before but not with the replaced coil and My buddies Apex doesn't have that issue. There are some spots that you need to drop the gain either because of EMI or because there maybe too much ground noise.

As for any magnetic contamination like magnetite, I have yet to see any IB machine handle that and eveny my friends with their Nox's have exactly the same signal distortion. Ground like that you have no alternative other than a PI.

I still believe that many of the issues you have are because of a marginal coil.

The coil is fine. Garrett checked it and I trust them. 

There is an alternative to a PI. The Equinox and even the Vanquish Multi IQs (with a few tweaks for its lack of manual ground balancing)  handle magnetite (and Australian maghemite) rich soils very well or I wouldn't use them. Many of the Pacific beach hunters use the Equinox and even the Vanquish for that reason, it is one of the few IBs that can detect successfully in salt plus iron mineralization. That really is where they rise to the top and for me anyway, is what they were specifically designed to handle.

So, I disagree with your blanket statement about the Equinox in magnetite soils. I have found it to work extremely well using its multi frequency setting. Hopefully Garrett's next SMF offering and Nokta Makros too, will be able to handle some magnetite mineralization. I know the APEX is very good on saltwater beaches with low black sand content already. Just for your information, the Etrac and CTX 3030 do not work very well here on deep targets. They are just as blind as the F75 and AT Max. They may hit on deep targets but they usually respond with iron responses only. I know a couple of local club members that own them but they don't use them for detecting here.

The Deus/ORX (using frequencies above 18 kHz) does okay in the same soils but like all the other non-Multi IQ detectors, it gets depth cut in half with lots of up averaging on all targets and thus unstable, inaccurate target IDs and tones to go with them. The Deus is so good in man-made iron infested sites and for small gold prospecting that it is still a detector I actually need. The Simplex is the oddball in this equation. I don't know what Nokta Makro did to it but it does fairly well here.....better than any other NM or single frequency IB detector I've used. 

So, most people here forget about depth unless they are using Multi IQ detectors which are capable of extreme depth and reasonably accurate target IDs on deep detectable non-ferrous targets. For raw depth some still  may use an F75 or an AT Max for deep stuff and just totally ignore the inaccurate or non existent target IDs and dig blind. All serious detector users here that are deep relic hunters or gold prospectors own a PI. 

[kac]

I don't believe your coil is 100%. I say that because just last weekend both buddies Apex and mine behaved exactly the same and directly under high power lines we had to drop our gain down 2 clicks. Neither machine had jumpy number or inaccurate id's, both machines locked onto targets very well and we were hunting near some old foundations riddled with iron nails and spikes. Like I mentioned the coil might have passed at Garrett but their conditions are different then yours or mine. It might be good to bring the issue back up with them so they can improve their testing.

[Jeff McClendon]

1 hour ago, kac said:

I don't believe your coil is 100%. I say that because just last weekend both buddies Apex and mine behaved exactly the same and directly under high power lines we had to drop our gain down 2 clicks. Neither machine had jumpy number or inaccurate id's, both machines locked onto targets very well and we were hunting near some old foundations riddled with iron nails and spikes. Like I mentioned the coil might have passed at Garrett but their conditions are different then yours or mine. It might be good to bring the issue back up with them so they can improve their testing.

Kac, for whatever reasons, you have been giving me advice, telling me what to do, how to use and what is wrong with detectors (some of which you don't even own) for years when I never asked you for help. I have heard enough.

My apologies for the cross-talk.......

I don't intend to spend anymore money on shipping to make sure that a coil that I asked Garrett to check already tests as good a second time.

Done.

[kac]

1 hour ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Kac, for whatever reasons, you have been giving me advice, telling me what to do, how to use and what is wrong with detectors (some of which you don't even own) for years when I never asked you for help. I have heard enough.

My apologies for the cross-talk.......

I don't intend to spend anymore money on shipping to make sure that a coil that I asked Garrett to check already tests as good a second time.

Done.

The original topic is about the Apex and what people like and dislike about it. It was never a comparison to other products or brands.

I never tell people or give them specific advice on machines I don't own or have used and try to keep any advice pretty much generalized. There are common issues that everyone experiences in different situations with just about every IB machine. Machines I do own and have used and figured out anything that might help others I don't mind telling them.

[abenson]

I don't think the coil is the issue. I think the issue is the dirt. My Apex does the same thing with the viper coil. Anything over about 5 inches deep the target ID is very unstable. My soil is also very mineralized.

I have a video digging fired .58 cal minie balls (which is a fairly large target) with the Apex. Bullets that are approximately 7 inches deep give a mostly iron ID with an occasional number ID. The Apex I just got, came with a 8.5x11 coil so I plan on going back to that site and seeing if the bigger coil changes things.

The few times I used the Apex in heavily iron infested sites, it drove me nuts. One thing I did learn while I had the first one is that if you hold the coil about 4 inches off the ground it separates better. That will work in ghost towns where the stuff it close to the surface. But it's not practical to use anywhere else.

Here's the video for those that want to see it.

 

[Dances With Doves]

Metal detecting is local. You have a machine that is great in a certain place and on certain targets. You then take that  machine to a different place and the machine now does much worse because of the ground or EMI. You have to find out what works for you in  the places you hunt which is why many people have other machines. To me the Nox does the best in the many different places that I use it. A light machine could also cause you to have better results in a  steep terrain because it causes less stress to your mind and body.

[EL NINO77]

I think of iron - magnetite terrain on which Jeff McClendon detects ... represents a relatively strong mineralization / 6 / -bar fe3o4 ../. where really good VLF detectors Top Classes ../ optimally set ... / give still a good signal with ID in the non-ferrous zone ... on the coin a maximum of 6 "... maybe 6.5" .. max ..
 
  Detecting a coin deeper than 6.5 "already requires an exceptionally good detector on a really good and reasonably large 11" -13 "coil ... and in this case, rely more on a good non-ferrous Audio signal .. than on Exactly VDI targets ... because in in the case of 8 "-9" deep targets, you often do not get any reasonably accurate VDI.

  APEX on a small 6x10" coil ... may not be optimally prepared to detect in such a heavily mineralized terrain ... and perhaps a larger coil could help to improve its detection properties in such a case ...

Of course, there are other internal detector settings  .....that affect the ability to detect in strong mineralization.

a good test ..is if after debugging the ground -GB ... you pump with a coil to the ground ... to sense and sharply tune the detector to the same terrain ... if you hear some false signals from mineralization ... try to reduce the sensitivity of the detector ..

I recommend reducing and reducing the speed of sweeping the coil.. to achieve the best detection signal.

... these are my universal advice..mainly for detectors that are not specially designed for extremely strong mineralization ..

[kac]

Thanks for the video, I get similar results in some areas here too. When I thought it was the coil I was referring to falsing. Apex here when properly ground balanced doesn't false.

[palzynski]

Today I had a discussion with a md dealer in France about the Apex. He told me that several customers had reliability issues with the 1st Apex batch .Good news now for him the situation has changed and he has no complaints any more with the units that he is currently selling ... 🙂

So it looks like Garrett has done some changes/improvements on the Apex during the last months. It would be interesting to know what they have exactly done ( coil , pc board or software changes ? ) . But from what I know no info is available from them . At Garretts they are very good for marketing/sales communication , a little less for after service issues comm. , at least for the Apex ... 😒