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Testing The Garrett Apex / False Signals - Issue Solved


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TESTING THE GARRETT APEX 
-------------------------------

I have followed for the Apex exactly the same procedure already used for the other detectors that 
I have tested in the past : a) static depth tests , b) field tests . 

For info I live in the North of France, the soil is low to moderated mineralized there . 
The iron trash varies from medium to very high. I have used the Apex inland only  ( no beach detecting )

During this test, I will compare the Apex with the Vanquish and Deus/Orx that I know very well
and which are in the same price category ( Apex 600e ,Vanquish 540 pp 550e, XP Deus Lite/Orx 650e )..
The Deus/Orx are a reference over here. And the Vanquish is a very good machine . 
So all what needed for a realistic comparison ..

1) First impressions :
----------------------

The Apex is very well built , I like the thin control box which is much more compact
than the Vanquish control box. The lithium battery is a plus. The shaft has a little outdated
design I would have preferred a telescopic shaft like the Vanquish , but it is easy to mount and 
seems robust.

The Apex weights 1,17kg without the coil cover , 1,23kg with the cc , so more than what indicated in 
the manual ( 1,13kg ).

The Apex 6X 11 coil weights 400grams without the cc , it is a little heavy compared to the Vanquish V10 coil
which weights only 360grams. The Apex coil shape is a little unusual , long and narrow , almost rectangular ,
but this has the advantage to provide an important ground coverage par sweep compared to circular or even 
elliptical shapes.

The Apex is easy to use . The manual is short , only 25 pages this is a good thing.

The wireless headphones are very well build, they have no noticeable latency. and they worked well during the test.
I just noticed a few drops out but nothing dramatic


2) Static depth tests :
-----------------------

2 depth tests have been done , one using a big copper 10grams coin at 28cm ( 11 inches ) depth , the other
using a small 3grams bronze coin at 15cm ( 6 inches ) depth. See pics below.
I have always used the MF mode during this test.

As I expected the Apex does not hit the big 10grams copper coin at 11 inches , so the Apex does not go
as deep as for example a Vanquish plus the V12 coil. This is due to the small width (6inches ) of the Apex
coil and it is quite logical.

However the Apex hits the small 3 grams coin at 6inches , the same result as the Vanquish and Deus
so a good result.

I noticed at this moment that the Apex audio signals on targets ( coins for example ) are quite sharp. 
Actually I found them too sharp , as if there was a little iron in all the coins that I was testing. 
The Apex audio is a little unusual and I would have preferred softer signals actually ..

So conclusion of this part the depth tests are ok , the Apex audio is a little surprising with these
sharp signals on targets , but probably just a matter of a few hours detecting to get used to it ..


3) Field tests :
----------------

I have tested the Apex at 3 different locations, where I always go when testing new detectors :

- a plowed field which has been occupied by a camp hospital during the 1st WW. 
  So quite a lot of iron trash ,plus aluminium fragments , etc .. and interesting things like buttons,
  buckles , etc ..

- a wood near a small town containing medieval artefacts among a very high density of iron trash

- others fields near a big town

 
Total detecting time : 8 hours


3.1) plowed field :
-------------------

I went 3 times in this field with the Apex. 

During the 1st outing everything went ok . Actually I do not like the Apex
audio ,I find it not enough accurate compared to the Vanquish/Deus and too sharp on targets as I said
above . And the Vanquish VDIs are much more accurate that the Apex VDIs ..

Then I started to have serious troubles with the Apex .. 😬
During the next outings done in this field there I have been constantly bothered by FALSE SIGNALS.
The Apex was randomly beeping while no target under the coil. There are power lines quite close to the field
but I have never had such pbs pb here with other detectors Equinox , Vanquish and Deus.
During the 3rd outing in this field I have even decided to leave the area after 15 minutes because it was impossible to detect due to the erratic signals. 


3.2) wood :
-----------
The outing in this wood has been more positive.I had very few false signals there and the Apex did a good job
in this area infested by little ferrous. I even found a nice medieval buckle missed by the other detectors. I have appreciated
the 11X6 coil which has very good separation abilities . As I said I am not a fan of the Apex audio but it worked  ... at least in this area. 🙂

btw it has rained during all the outing , so difficult conditions , and I had no pb with the high hygrometry , a good thing

 

3.3) other plowed fields :
--------------------------

During this outing we tried 2 fields

In the first field I had the same pb as above , false signals again ..  There was a gsm antenna not far ,
perhaps this could explain the pb . But not justify it , because other detectors work very well here ..

It went better in the second field where I found 2 coins. My friend found 3 coins with his Deus .
So quite a good result for the Apex here..

One more thing I do not like with the Apex , the backlight activation. To activate it the menu button must be pressed 6 times,
then the + button 1 time ,. Total 7 times ... Same thing for desactivating it....
On the Vanquish 540 you just have to press one time the dedicated button it is far simpler ,
I usually just need the backlight a few seconds to check the VDI , so the Apex backlight is 
almost unusable for me ... The Apex should have a dedicated backlight button ..

 

CONCLUSION
---------------

At the moment I have decided to stop the Apex tests because of this important 'false signal" issue . 
This is not normal that the Apex cannot be used at places where other detectors work perfectly well. 😒

I have never experienced a pb like this actually. I do not know where it comes from, EMI or others ...
I have informed my dealer about this pb and he will contact Garrett. 
I hope I will have news on this soon.. and a solution to fix that pb , so that I can restart the tests. 

btw I have tried all the settings to get rid of the "false signals" issue , reducing the sensitivity , 
ground balancing , changing the channel , etc ... With no results up to now ... I think that the pb is more 
related to the Apex electronics/software or coil design ... Future will tell
 

 

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From the videos I had seen the audio seems a bit more like the AT MAX and less like the AT Pro. I have used my buddies MAX and by all rights a pretty descent machine but the audio seems a little more mechanical and chirpy. Used my AT Pro in the river nearby as tide went out with gb ranging from 87-96 due to the heavy natural iron deposits and I was under some power lines. Machine ran perfectly smooth. If they update the Apex it would really be nice to get that sort of stability and audio that many still appreciate from the Pro.

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6 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Did you solely use Multi or did you try any of the single frequencies too?

I think I tried singe frequencies but it did not change anything . I will redo a test to be sure about this . However the Apex should work correctly even using MF like the others multifreqs ( Equinox , Vanquish )  do ...

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42 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Thanks for the information, it doesn't sound like a fault as it works away from the EMI source so perhaps it just has frequencies in use that are more susceptible to the EMI in that area, a bit of a bummer.  EMI is a bit of a weird one though, as someone finds it a problem where they live, and to someone else in another location it's perfectly fine.  You'd think with that itsy-bitsy coil it wouldn't pickup that much EMI, maybe it's the control box?  Wrap it in tinfoil and see if the EMI goes away 😃

It's a shame Garrett lied about the weight, makes you wonder what else they lie about.  It's not difficult to weigh a detector.

For me it is a fault because I went to 3 different locations , and I had troubles on 2.  So it occurs too frequently to be considered as a minor issue ... From now on I will use my other detectors  ( Deus Vanquish ) because I am sure that they will work everywhere ...

Yes "wrap in tinfoil" I had this idea too,  I will try this thanks .. 🙂

About the weight the Apex weights 1,17kg without cc , not so far from the 1,13kg of the manual. But yes they should learn to weight a detector at Garretts ( and Noktas too )  ...😄

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Simon,

   That only works for aliens using mind control! But if you want to post us a picture of you modeling one, i would love to see it!!🤣👍👍

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  • palzynski changed the title to Testing The Garrett Apex / False Signals ...
7 hours ago, palzynski said:

I think I tried singe frequencies but it did not change anything . I will redo a test to be sure about this . However the Apex should work correctly even using MF like the others multifreqs ( Equinox , Vanquish )  do ...

Not necessarily. Single frequencies, especially higher frequencies like 20khz can be less susceptible to EMI. One of the reasons why having a single frequency option vs. multi can be advantageous, especially if the noise cancellation scheme in multi is not very good.

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Really nice review.

Couple thoughts on emi...

Does it happen with the wired heaphones vs plug in? I say that because for some strange reason the wireless heaphones on my MK pick up emi when the machine is at certain frequencies or when I use my pp.

Other thought is the machine might be emi resistant in the USA 60hz but that may not work well over seas. Not sure if changing coin modes would include optimizing the filtering for Europes power grid.

 

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6 hours ago, kac said:

Really nice review.

Couple thoughts on emi...

Does it happen with the wired heaphones vs plug in? I say that because for some strange reason the wireless heaphones on my MK pick up emi when the machine is at certain frequencies or when I use my pp.

Other thought is the machine might be emi resistant in the USA 60hz but that may not work well over seas. Not sure if changing coin modes would include optimizing the filtering for Europes power grid.

 

Chase and kac ,

Nothing proves up to now that these false signals comes from EMI. It could come from something else .For example when I was using my Goldmaxx or my Xterra during rainy outings with a high hygrometry level these detectors were often failing with random noises after less than one hour detecting , this because of the condensation progressively occuring on the electronics board. For detectors that are not IP protected like the Goldmaxx and the Xterra it is very easy for the humidity to get into the control box through the speaker control box opening for example.

So for the moment I have no idea where the pb comes from for the Apex ... And it seems that sometimes the pb is not repeatable even for agiven location see my next post.  

So now I will wait from Garrett's answer on the issue , we will see what they say ... It looks like that somebody else in the forum ( coinboy ) has the same issue as mine btw ...Look at Abenson's last thread ..

Kac, the pb happened either with the wireless headphones connected or not if I remember well. 

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So today I went back to the previous field , trying to reproduce the false signals pb and see if I could improve the situation . This time the false signals had mostly disappeared and the Apex worked correctly !!  Strange ..  So I found some typical targets of this area , one german button , a cartridge , some bullets , schrappnells etc ... See pic below

As the Apex was ok I could concentrate on the detector behaviour again . I confirm that I am not a fan of the Apex audio 🤔:,  I find this audio too chirpy with a lack of accuracy when on a target , compared to the Equinox , Vanquish or Deus/Orx which work much better for me ... 

So actually I am not really happy with the Apex mainly because of this poor audio ( this apart from the false signals issue). It is a pity because the machine is really very well built ..

I hope that Garrett will provide an update to improve this audio behaviour , especially when the Apex is used on iron trashed sites .. 

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  • Steve Herschbach changed the title to Testing The Garrett Apex / False Signals - Issue Solved

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    • By palzynski
      I went today to one of my favourite testing areas , a very old site in a forest , low mineralized soil but infested with thousands of nails.
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      here. The Ripper coil has the perfect size for hunting (very) small roman coins . It is also very easy
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      GARRETT APEX + RIPPER COIL  --   PLUS AND CONS :
      THE PROS :
       . excellent on iron trashed areas 
       . very good audio / excellent iron filtering
       . sensitive to tiny targets as well as bigger ones ( multifrequency )
       . fast and reactive/accurate on targets 
       . a light detector , weighting only 2.4lbs (1,1kg ) with the Ripper coil
       . the thin control box
       . the lithium/ion battery
       . easy to use even by beginners
       . the excellent MS3 wireless headphones
       
      THE CONS :
       . VDIs a little unstable
       . the rod outdated compared to other brands
       . the coil cable too short for tall persons ( above 6 feet/ 1,85m )
       . no dedicated backlight button 
       . the running freq info ( 5k,10k ... , MF..)  NOT displayed on the main detection screen
       
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      A few pics of todays outing below  ...
      1) First coin with the Apex/Ripper :

       
      2) A bigger one  ... :

       
      3) Total 6 coins :

       
      4) Back home , after cleaning , a nice roman coin : Constantinus , AD 360 , 1660 years old !  :
      legend : CONSTANTINUS PF AUG

       
      reverse legend : GLORIA EXERCITUS

       
      5) The Viper 6X11  and the Ripper 5X8 :

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