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Testing The Garrett Apex / False Signals - Issue Solved


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Palzynski,

I too have an APEX and i too had what I thought was excessive falsing.  I came across a post on the Findmall forum / Garrett Users Forum / Trouble with my apex.  The poster had similar complaints to what I had experienced and had isolated it to the junction of the coil cable / connector / detector housing.
 

I did some troubleshooting myself with this bit of wisdom and found that my cable connector is snug and locking ring is snug, but the cable / connector junction seems to be the culprit.  With the APEX on, and the coil away from all metallic objects, i can gently wiggle the cable back and forth at the junction with the connector and get a nearly 100% result of falsing both audio and Target ID that runs mostly in the mid-80's.  It sounds and responds like a target under the coil. 

If I turn down the sensitivity to 5 or less, I can get it to stop.  But at full sensitivity (8) or the next 2 segments, it continues to false with a wiggle of the cable at the connector. 

Any movement in the cable causes a false. I do wrap the cable around the search rod, but not so tight as to be immovable or to put strain on the connection at the housing or the coil.  I'm thinking there's an issue with the cable termination  in the connector itself for my Viper coil. 

I did contact Garrett Electronics on the website this evening and am waiting for a reply.

Rich - 

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palzynski, I only had about an hour to use the Apex at a moderately trashy aluminum park. I liked everything about the detector except for the extremely jumpy audio and target IDs. Even when I could isolate a fairly shallow  4" or less target in MF Jewelry mode, the tones would jump back and forth across three tone bins even on a US nickel or dime or an aluminum pull tab. That is not good. I almost wished at the time that the APEX only had three tones, like the Garrett AT Series......... which can be a bit twitchy too but not over a fairly shallow coin sized target.

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8 hours ago, UtahRich said:

Palzynski,

I too have an APEX and i too had what I thought was excessive falsing.  I came across a post on the Findmall forum / Garrett Users Forum / Trouble with my apex.  The poster had similar complaints to what I had experienced and had isolated it to the junction of the coil cable / connector / detector housing.
 

I did some troubleshooting myself ....

Any movement in the cable causes a false....

Rich - 

Hi Rich , thanks for the info , at least I know that I am not the only one having this pb ... 🙂 

Unfortunaly I have loaned my Apex to a friend so I cannot wiggle the cable to see what happens as you did ...  

I am looking forward for the Garretts answer ...

Alain

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2 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

palzynski, I only had about an hour to use the Apex at a moderately trashy aluminum park. I liked everything about the detector except for the extremely jumpy audio and target IDs. Even when I could isolate a fairly shallow  4" or less target in MF Jewelry mode, the tones would jump back and forth across three tone bins even on a US nickel or dime or an aluminum pull tab. That is not good. I almost wished at the time that the APEX only had three tones, like the Garrett AT Series......... which can be a bit twitchy too but not over a fairly shallow coin sized target.

Yes I agree the Apex audio on target is not very accurate unless the target is shallow. I agree that this is not good , especially when you compare with a Vanquish or Equinox. On the other hand I found that the Apex has a better iron filtering than the MLs ... It is quite good on nails beds , apart from the falsing issue ...

 

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8 hours ago, palzynski said:

...

I will inform my local dealer about this new info btw

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I believe most modern detectors use surface mounts so not likely a bad solder joint. Good chance it's a bad coil connector. Happened to my AT Pro.

Jumpy numbers might be from EMI and not necessarily the ground. Here we have more cell towers being put up and many houses have wifi boosters as well as wifi hot spots. Pretty sure it effects many machines and more so with ones that have larger coils. Finding that to be the case with my small arsenal.

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The initial appearance to me is that the trouble is on the coil cable side of the connection rather than the connector / housing / PCB side. HOWEVER, while it feels like i am not putting pressure on the connector itself with the wiggling of the cable, i could be. 

I also gave Monte a call - he has a couple early APEX's and is going to do a some checking. His initial thought is that he is NOT having this issue with either of his units. 

I'm assuming this is a very small issue as I have not seen broad reports to make me think otherwise.

Oh, and i did hear right back from Garrett customer service this morning.   That was fast.    

 

Rich - 

 

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3 hours ago, UtahRich said:

The initial appearance to me is that the trouble is on the coil cable side of the connection rather than the connector / housing / PCB side. HOWEVER, while it feels like i am not putting pressure on the connector itself with the wiggling of the cable, i could be. 

...

Rich - 

I forgot to say that on my Apex it is always difficult to insert or remove the coil connector into/from the control housing . The connection is too snug. 

Phrunt on the Vanquish the coil connector is also mounted on the PCB  see pic below  ... But it is very easy to insert or remove the coil connector on the vanquish, no snug at all.     btw the vanquish connector and housing are bigger than on the Apex , I do not like small connectors like on the Apex and Equinox too fragile to my opinion I prefer bigger ones like on the Vanquish... 

DSC02340.JPG

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54 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Yea, I just don't like that style although probably cheaper to produce, The Ace series was the same too with the direct connection.  It obviously works as they've been around for years it just doesn't seem right, perhaps the mount screws to the housing take the stress off the PCB and stop it flexing.  I like how it was done on the T2 where the 5 wires down the bottom on the photo run down to a separate coil connector on the housing, easier for a home fix if you need to replace it then too 🙂

 

Yes perhaps the Apex control box box plastic around the housing is too thin and flexes due to the coil connector wiggle . On the Vanquish the control box plastic is quite thick so the coil connector mount  does not flex for sure ...

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I wonder if there is some noise reduction reason to do this.  Simply saving space is not a good tradeoff, IMO.  I've seen PCB traces broken with a lot less stress/force than (repeatedly) plugging in a 5+ pin cable connector.  I'm amazed they actually don't fail on a regular basis.  But they (Garrett and Minelab) know more than I do..., I hope.  😕

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