What Features And Performance Improvements Would You Like To See In The Next High End Minelab Coin Detector?

[PimentoUK]

This idea has been on my mind since I first got my Equinox. But recently I've investigated the calibration of the target-ID scale:

https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/18158-equinox-tid-value-target-frequency-calibration-table/

That has allowed me to make a more detailed post.

The current target ID scale has its mid-range '20'/'21' calibrated for a 6 kHz target. This seems reasonable for modes like Park1/Field1 , which place their emphasis on the 7.8 kHz operating frequency. The scaling of the rest of the numbers encompasses a very broad range, from targets way beyond US silver Dollars at the top end, to tiny nuggets at the bottom end. See the attached table detailing the current ID range.
I always felt the range was too compressed - targets reading above '30' ID are very rare for me, the machine seems more like it has a 30-point ID . But if you're the 'milled silver/copper coin hunter' , it's acceptable.

However, in the sparkier Park2/Field2 modes, the machine is clearly emphasising the 18.2 kHz operating frequency, great for European farmland hunting, looking for tiny ancient coins and other lower-conductor artefacts. But I think the detector needs the option of a recalibrated ID scale to match these low-conductor hunting modes. Centre-scale should be a target matching the 18.2 kHz, such as a US 5 cent 'nickel' coin ( a 16.6 kHz target ). The low ID range can be stretched a bit to give more resolution, and extended a bit to go 'below 1'. The high-conductor end of the scale can sacrifice a lot, and still ID many real common targets.

I propose a scale with a US 5 cent coin as ID = '20'. Scaling of individual ID steps is for a frequency ratio of 1 : 1.1067 ,so that 4 ID steps represents a 1 : 1.5 change in target frequency. To see how this fills the ID range, see the attached table.

I think the user should have the option of 'dual-scaling' the TID readout. If Park1/Field1/4kHz/5kHz/10kHz is selected, keep the existing ID scale. If Park2/Field2/15kHz/20kHz/40kHz/goldfield is selected, the nickel-centred 'Low-conductor' scale is used.
[I've neglected Beach-modes, as I'm not familiar enough with them to decide]

This choice of 'Standard ID' or 'Dual-scale ID' could be implemented using the (under-utilised) 'coil disconnected' mode. The machine would then remember how it was configured when subsequently operated normally. [ See this post for 'coil disconnected' mode thoughts:

https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/14250-what-features-and-performance-improvements-would-you-like-to-see-in-the-next-high-end-minelab-coin-detector/?do=findComment&comment=188022

 

An additional idea : The '88' TID readout can clearly indicate a value above 40, so it's possible to still ID large milled coins in the 'low-conductor' ID mode. The only real issue relates to the 'notch' , where '40' would notch '40 and above', and the feature allowing you to notch a particular target after you've swept over it would need a re-think.

[BoyMom]

I am new to the hobby with a Nox 800 as my first detector. There are a lot of exceptional ideas presented here by people who have been doing this long enough to be considered pros. I do not have enough experience to comment on the programming aspect. So far, I agree with all the hardware suggestions made.  I sincerely hope Minelab puts serious consideration into the ideas put forth here.

I am a 5' 2" woman and am convinced all these machines are designed for 7' tall men built like linebackers. The elbow cuff is way too wide; the accompanying strap is pointless as it doesn't fit the cuff. We had to add thick felt to the cuff in order to keep my arm from slopping around in it while swinging. The reach between the cuff on its closest hole to the grip is to long for me as well. We added two hole positions to solve this. I'm not sure that it being nose heavy is as noticeable with my shorter height but I definitely agree that a "S" shaft would be more comfortable.

Summing up the adjustments I would like to see:

* More positions for the arm cuff

* Smaller cuff option or an adjustable cuff

* More ergonomic shaft

[Chase Goldman]

On 2/17/2022 at 7:28 PM, PimentoUK said:

This idea has been on my mind since I first got my Equinox. But recently I've investigated the calibration of the target-ID scale, and that allowed me to make a more detailed post.

The current target ID scale has its mid-range '20'/'21' calibrated for a 6 kHz target. This seems reasonable for modes like Park1/Field1 , which place their emphasis on the 7.8 kHz operating frequency. The scaling of the rest of the numbers encompasses a very broad range, from targets way beyond US silver Dollars at the top end, to tiny nuggets at the bottom end. See the attached table detailing the current ID range.
I always felt the range was too compressed - targets reading above '30' ID are very rare for me, the machine seems more like it has a 30-point ID . But if you're the 'milled silver/copper coin hunter' , it's acceptable.

However, in the sparkier Park2/Field2 modes, the machine is clearly emphasising the 18.2 kHz operating frequency, great for European farmland hunting, looking for tiny ancient coins and other lower-conductor artefacts. But I think the detector needs the option of a recalibrated ID scale to match these low-conductor hunting modes. Centre-scale should be a target matching the 18.2 kHz, such as a US 5 cent 'nickel' coin ( a 16.6 kHz target ). The low ID range can be stretched a bit to give more resolution, and extended a bit to go 'below 1'. The high-conductor end of the scale can sacrifice a lot, and still ID many real common targets.

I propose a scale with a US 5 cent coin as ID = '20'. Scaling of individual ID steps is for a frequency ratio of 1 : 1.1067 ,so that 4 ID steps represents a 1 : 1.5 change in target frequency. To see how this fills the ID range, see the attached table.

I think the user should have the option of 'dual-scaling' the TID readout. If Park1/Field1/4kHz/5kHz/10kHz is selected, keep the existing ID scale. If Park2/Field2/15kHz/20kHz/40kHz/goldfield is selected, the nickel-centred 'Low-conductor' scale is used.
[I've neglected Beach-modes, as I'm not familiar enough with them to decide]

This choice of 'Standard ID' or 'Dual-scale ID' could be implemented using the (under-utilised) 'coil disconnected' mode. The machine would then remember how it was configured when subsequently operated normally.

An additional idea : The '88' TID readout can clearly indicate a value above 40, so it's possible to still ID large milled coins in the 'low-conductor' ID mode. The only real issue relates to the 'notch' , where '40' would notch '40 and above', and the feature allowing you to notch a particular target after you've swept over it would need a re-think.

I don’t know what you are referring to when you say a target’s “frequency”.  Are you simply taking the MF range endpoints and dividing the by the number of non-ferrous TID segments to come up with a frequency “increment”.  Why is that even valid?  Optimum frequency response on a given target based on “conductivity” is not necessary linear nor is it a given that a particular target is responding to the mathematically derived frequency component.  I understand the high level concept of a mode based, center-weighted phase shift scale, but the down side is that outside of the normalized “center” the target ID’s for targets at the extreme ends of the scale would no longer be normalized and would vary based on mode string.  I think most users would find this behavior to be objectionable despite opening up dynamic range in the mode-based optimal target range of interest.

[Steve Herschbach]

100% accurate ferrous vs non-ferrous discrimination with no controls that force a trade off. Something that just works, and does not get fooled, especially in bad ground.

And then he woke up! 

[midalake]

On 4/26/2022 at 10:59 AM, BoyMom said:

I am a 5' 2" woman and am convinced all these machines are designed for 7' tall men built like linebackers.

Welcome to the other end of the spectrum! 😁 

I can tell you at 6'4 the Equinox was not long enough for me. So we are even.😎

Companies should make solid detector rods that have full adjustments for everyone.

Detector companies should never make a coil with the coil mount at the rear of the coil. 

[Badger-NH]

I'm 6'0" and and still have two more holes to use if I wanted to make it longer.  I like to have the coil right in front of my feet when I swing and extend the rod just enough that I don't kick the coil.

The cuff is a little loose on my bare arm but that leaves room for wearing a heavy jacket in winter.

[kac]

On 2/17/2022 at 7:28 PM, PimentoUK said:

This idea has been on my mind since I first got my Equinox. But recently I've investigated the calibration of the target-ID scale, and that allowed me to make a more detailed post.

The current target ID scale has its mid-range '20'/'21' calibrated for a 6 kHz target. This seems reasonable for modes like Park1/Field1 , which place their emphasis on the 7.8 kHz operating frequency. The scaling of the rest of the numbers encompasses a very broad range, from targets way beyond US silver Dollars at the top end, to tiny nuggets at the bottom end. See the attached table detailing the current ID range.
I always felt the range was too compressed - targets reading above '30' ID are very rare for me, the machine seems more like it has a 30-point ID . But if you're the 'milled silver/copper coin hunter' , it's acceptable.

However, in the sparkier Park2/Field2 modes, the machine is clearly emphasising the 18.2 kHz operating frequency, great for European farmland hunting, looking for tiny ancient coins and other lower-conductor artefacts. But I think the detector needs the option of a recalibrated ID scale to match these low-conductor hunting modes. Centre-scale should be a target matching the 18.2 kHz, such as a US 5 cent 'nickel' coin ( a 16.6 kHz target ). The low ID range can be stretched a bit to give more resolution, and extended a bit to go 'below 1'. The high-conductor end of the scale can sacrifice a lot, and still ID many real common targets.

I propose a scale with a US 5 cent coin as ID = '20'. Scaling of individual ID steps is for a frequency ratio of 1 : 1.1067 ,so that 4 ID steps represents a 1 : 1.5 change in target frequency. To see how this fills the ID range, see the attached table.

I think the user should have the option of 'dual-scaling' the TID readout. If Park1/Field1/4kHz/5kHz/10kHz is selected, keep the existing ID scale. If Park2/Field2/15kHz/20kHz/40kHz/goldfield is selected, the nickel-centred 'Low-conductor' scale is used.
[I've neglected Beach-modes, as I'm not familiar enough with them to decide]

This choice of 'Standard ID' or 'Dual-scale ID' could be implemented using the (under-utilised) 'coil disconnected' mode. The machine would then remember how it was configured when subsequently operated normally.

An additional idea : The '88' TID readout can clearly indicate a value above 40, so it's possible to still ID large milled coins in the 'low-conductor' ID mode. The only real issue relates to the 'notch' , where '40' would notch '40 and above', and the feature allowing you to notch a particular target after you've swept over it would need a re-think.

That is a problem with normalized scaling. Nokta's Kruzer and Amphibio scales are normalized to 14khz which is in the middle of their range. The alternative is to use standard scaling which I had done in the past. The only issue with standard scaling is tone breaks will be different unless re-mapped as well as custom tone breaks and discrimination points. One of the things I liked about high frequency machines and gold scale is the wide range of iron giving lots of room for discriminating the iron trash out. Downside is good targets like silvers are all crunched up with little difference in id range from coppers etc.

Not sure how a flattened linear scale would work if they mapped the target phases evenly. There might be inaccuracies in TID's in some ranges if single frequency is used but may work out well for SMF.

[Ridge Runner]

Minelab I believe that you have the knowledge to give us a update on our Nox that would leave the new kiddos on the block in the dust. Updates is a brain thing and you don’t have to retool but could boost sales because of it.

 Minelab you got the ball in your park and I find it hard to believe that you a number one detector company is going to sit on your butt doing nothing.

 Chuck 

[PimentoUK]

Quote Chase:

"I don’t know what you are referring to when you say a target’s “frequency”"
I suspect you may have missed my earlier thread about calibrating the Equinox VDI scale:
 

( I will edit my earlier post in this thread to link to it )

A target's "frequency" is that detector frequency which causes it to have a 45 degrees phase lag ( or 90+45 degrees, depending on your 'reference' phase). Or ... you can alternatively measure what phase lag it has at some other frequency, and mathematically calculate what the '45 degree lag' frequency would be.
A target can essentially be modelled as an inductor with a resistor connected to its ends. So it has a 'first-order' response, much the same as a first-order low-pass filter you may be familiar with from electronic engineering studies. These can be R-C, or L-R filters. The relevant behaviour is that feeding it with a very low frequency produces very little phase lag; drive it with a very high frequency, you will approach 90 degrees lag. The 45 degree lag point is when the driven frequency matches the 'filter' frequency:

f = 1/(2*pi*R*C) = R / ( 2*pi*L)

It's actually possible to use a real inductor-resistor combination as a target, they work well. Alternatively, a closed wire loop is viable: though the L and R values are tiny and practically unmeasureable, they can ( with difficulty ) be calculated, hence the target frequency can be determined.

[dsb]

Maybe these exist already.  Wireless headphones that can take an occasional  dunking while wading,  pinpointer that pairs with the wireless headphones.  How about an update for deep American silver as long as were doing regional tweaks. "This new 4 kHz frequency enhances the detection of large deep targets, particularly those found in parts of Asia."