Possible USA Nickel Vs. Pulltab Discrimination Technique

[Raphis]

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

Are you talking about the ML80 wireless headphones (supplied with the Eqx 800), some other Bluetooth headphone, or the WM08 combined with wired headphones?  (This last is what I've used from very early on, swapping out wired earbudes with wired headphones in summer heat, but still attaching to the WM08 module.)

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

Just a couple more questions -- hope you don't mind me pestering:  do you use the 11" coil exclusively and are you running the latest (version 3.x) software?

You can ask me as many questions as you like, GB!  I’ve got all the free time in the world 😅.  I’m retired (in my mid 50’s)....along with all these strict covid measures here in Los Angeles and the skyrocketing new cases/hospitalizations climbing exponentially, I’m at home on my Cell phone and this forum more often than not. 
 

I used the minelab supplied headphones and Bluetooth (not the WM08) for a few months before purchasing a nice audiophile grade pair of Bluetooth (low latency) headphones by Aiwa, called the Arc-1. I used the Bluetooth of my Aiwa’s for a month or so before switching permanently to a hardwire connection on my Aiwa’s.  I tried using the WM08 module, but had terrible results with it...my audio signal was always going in and out...probably a combination of carrying my cellphone around my waste, and attaching the wireless module to my backside on my belt buckle....I actually don’t mind having to use a hardwired connection one bit!  In fact, I believe it gives me an advantage at hearing the deepies, plus I don’t have to worry about charging more batteries, and I can eke out longer operating times with my machine,  since I deactivate the internal Bluetooth circuitry in the Nox (even though I use a power bank to double my operating times before charging).

You commented about my hunting speed, and I gave you an answer of 200’x200’ in a 2-4 hr hunt time, but now that I pictured and reminisced on a few recent hunts I’ve been on, that square footage I quoted earlier is quite large 🤔🤓.  I can remember last week hunting 2-4 hrs in a zone no bigger than 100’x100’.  Trust me, I don’t move that fast, and I do hunt, as you do, where the coil is scrubbing the surface in more straight lines than huge arcs.
 

I am using the latest Nox software....I played around with 4 kHz single freq for a couple hunts, and found a few deep silver dimes and wheats with it, but was frustrated at the lack of more accurate ID’s on targets in 4 kHz.

I always use my 11” coil...no other coils....I remember when I first bought my Explorer SE back in 2007, within a few months, I had purchased 2-3 aftermarket coils (a Sunray 8”, an 8x6, and a 12x8 elliptical).  They were all fun to use, and I used them on and off for a year or two, but always returned to my 11”...years later, I did purchased a 13” coil for my Explorer, and that’s the coil I found my only gold coin with back in 2013.  The coil started to false in wet grass after less than a year of use, so I returned back to the 11” Pro coil, and have never bought another aftermarket coil for my turf machines....I feel very comfortable with my 11” coil, and have even more confidence with it on my Nox, because of the Nox’s fantastic target separation with that stock coil.  I’m finding the tiniest pieces of silver and other trinkets, along with digging silver and other deep, old coinage in holes with other targets in them, so the stock coil is my “go to” all the time. 
 

Look at that piece of Merc I found last week in my photo...

 

Here’s the pic of the 13 silver day I had a couple weeks back with the Nox from a well hunted park, however, this was my “1st” trip there hunting with my Nox!!

[Dances With Doves]

I bought my  custom   Tony Eis. headphones for water hunting.I  tried them  one time in the turf hardwired to the machine  and in 50 tones pk1 and I  never went back to wireless for   serious coin hunting.I did much better this way.

[Raphis]

3 hours ago, cudamark said:

Raphis mentioned hunting 2-4 hours and covering an area maybe 200 X 200 feet. I wouldn't even cover that much in that amount of time, so, I don't think I'm moving too fast..... Maybe half that at most. I like to really analyze every sound in these places. It's just that there are so many, it takes a lot of time.

CudaMark,

I revisited my statement about how much ground I cover in a given period of time, and I corrected my estimates to roughly 100’x100’ area in a 2-4 hr hunt....This is a rough estimate, because if I’m finding oldies in the area I’m hunting, and the site is trashy, I’m staying put in a small area for quite a lengthy time, swinging my coil from many different directions, zigzagging thru the region, until I feel it’s time to move on....and if I’m still at the same site, I may move back to that hot zone again and test my luck....I’ll most certainly go back again on another day.  Trust me, I hunt very slowly and patiently....sorry for my earlier, inflated estimates of the area I cover.. 🤓

As for your issues with cut coins, I’m assuming you’re getting pestered by newer, clipped clad coinage (as opposed to older clipped/chopped coinage).  I don’t typically find pieces of clad coinage, but I do find badly mangled/chewed clad quarters, along with a few bent clad dimes from time to time, but I’ve never really been pestered by them at any of the hundreds of sites I have hunted in my area.  I do find chopped silver and wheat penny coins regularly here, and whenever I find those, I feel more of an accomplishment, that I was able to find a piece of a deep old coin, and know I’m not missing whole, deep old coins that often.

i can recall on a couple hunts in the past, where I had found 2 pieces of the same silver coin, within 5 ft from each other.  Another time, I had found 3 pieces of the same silver Washington quarter, all pieces within a 10 ft radius.  After connecting all the pieces together, it looked as if there were still a sliver of the coin still missing 😲

Somtimes, I even find octagon shape and crucifix shaped wheat pennies too! 😹🤣

 

[mn90403]

3 hours ago, Raphis said:

I always use my 11” coil...no other coils

Raphis,

It has been a pleasure reading your posts on this thread and others since you started using your Nox.  I still have a fond place in my heart for using an Explorer SE Pro on the Santa Monica Bay beaches.  I've never really become a park hunter as I've not mastered the digging part there.

I got my Nox 800 very early after release and was the first guy after Steve to find any gold nuggets with a Nox.  I found two little nuggets on my first trip near Barstow.  I was using the 11 inch coil as it was the only one available in the beginning.  I've used that coil for hundreds of hours on the beaches and found some additional nuggets with it.  I've carefully listened and found very deep coins in damp sand at over 15 inches.

Simon and I would probably like to challenge you to use the 15" coil.  We had many discussions about it and he was more in favor of it than I was.  I considered it a 'finicky' coil until the last software upgrade.  That upgrade made coins in Beach 1 sound like the coins in Park 1 that I use in dry sand.  I can take it out on the beaches and get great coverage and depth and I've found many good targets following other beach diggers.  Simon has perfected it for his silver coin field.

If you don't have access to a 15 you could use mine for a week or so and make a comparison.  Heck, I just let you use my whole detector with the 15 since were're in the same area and I'm on the sidelines for a bit.

Mitchel

[GB_Amateur]

9 hours ago, Raphis said:

I tried using the WM08 module, but had terrible results with it...my audio signal was always going in and out...probably a combination of carrying my cellphone around my waste, and attaching the wireless module to my backside on my belt buckle....

I don't know about cellphone interference (I carry a dumbphone -- that's all I have) but can say without question that the WM08 requires line-of-site conditions.  I put mine in my upper jacket or shirt pocket -- right hand side since I swing left handed.  If my detector is on the ground and I simply turn away from it (e.g. to walk to the car to get a tool I forgot) the headphones go silent.  (I run with a soft but discernable threshold.)  But returning (with clear line-of-site) I start picking up the RF signal at around 30 meters and it's clear (no loss what-so-ever) no less than 10 m away.  Another issue is good contact of connectors.  Dropouts are doubly likely if you have to use a 3.5 mm male to 1/4" female adapter as it adds another weak link into the chain.

9 hours ago, Raphis said:

You commented about my hunting speed, and I gave you an answer of 200’x200’ in a 2-4 hr hunt time, but now that I pictured and reminisced on a few recent hunts I’ve been on, that square footage I quoted earlier is quite large 🤔🤓.  I can remember last week hunting 2-4 hrs in a zone no bigger than 100’x100’.

That makes a lot more sense.  I kinda wondered if you were mis-estimating the area covered.  Certainly some people go faster than your original estimate.  My brain has trouble discerning good from bad hits in my trashy ground and in particular the quiet (typically deep) signals are the ones most likely to get missed in my case.  No question that the site plays a roll, and everyone's style is different.  That's why good discussions here (especiialy with reasons given for settings and techniques) opens up my mind, and hopefully others', too.

Thanks again for answering all my questions and offering up some of your 'tricks'.  I never thought that creating this thread would pay back in multiples of what I put into it, but it sure has.  I'm headed out this afternoon (after it warms up a bit -- getting rather cool here in the Midwest) and I'll try some of your ideas (especially searching in Field 1 and returning to Recovery Speed = 4).

[Raphis]

6 hours ago, mn90403 said:

Simon and I would probably like to challenge you to use the 15" coil.  We had many discussions about it and he was more in favor of it than I was.  I considered it a 'finicky' coil until the last software upgrade.  That upgrade made coins in Beach 1 sound like the coins in Park 1 that I use in dry sand.  I can take it out on the beaches and get great coverage and depth and I've found many good targets following other beach diggers.  Simon has perfected it for his silver coin field.

If you don't have access to a 15 you could use mine for a week or so and make a comparison.  Heck, I just let you use my whole detector with the 15 since were're in the same area and I'm on the sidelines for a bit.

Mitchel, thanks for your response and appreciate your accolades of my discussions on this forum.  👍🏼

I’m certain that if I was detecting a beach with my Nox, I’d probably get the 15” coil.  I pretty much only use my PI machine with a 17”x13“ coil when I hunt the beaches as it gives me great coverage and maximum depth, and I nearly dig any smooth sounding targets with that machine in the sand.  
 

As for dirt/turf hunting, I could never see myself using a 15” coil in the local parks here in So Cal...our turf here in most every old, inner city park is just way too trashy to use a coil of that size.  My buddy, years ago, tried using a 15” coil on his Explorer , and after less than an hr, he was walking back to his car to swap it for his stock coil! 😆 Also, years ago, I briefly borrowed a friend’s CTX and tried using the 17” coil at an old park.  I didn’t like it, not only for its weight/drag across the surface, but it was just a poorer separator when multiple targets mixed with an iron target were below the coil.  Target separation becomes just as important, if not more so, than maximum depth for finding old coins in the turf.  Granted, I did use an Ultimate 13” coil on my Explorer years ago, and I did like it before the coil crapped out on me, but if that had been a 15”, I probably wouldn’t have bought it.  As heavy as the Explorer is (especially with the Sunray in-line probe attached), my shoulder/arm wouldn’t have held up very well swinging that large of a coil.  I appreciate your offer to give your coil a try.  My confidence with the stock Nox coil in turf is sky high, and I don’t feel a the 15” would give me any extra edge at local parks here, but for beach use, yes, the 15” would have my approval!!

 

[Raphis]

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

but can say without question that the WM08 requires line-of-site conditions.  I put mine in my upper jacket or shirt pocket -- right hand side since I swing left handed.  If my detector is on the ground and I simply turn away from it (e.g. to walk to the car to get a tool I forgot) the headphones go silent. 

So you do use your hardwire audio cable...it’s just not directly connected to your Nox 😂. I would have gladly paid $75 less, or whatever the cost of that WM08 module is, if I could have bought the Nox without that accessory.  I’m perfectly happy with my hardwire connection...it’s one less thing I have to think about when hunting for the deepies.  I want to hear exactly what the output of the Nox processor is producing without any chance of airwave dropouts/EMI fluctuations, distance/line of sight issues, slight audio delays, or extra digital to analog conversions of the audio path.  I have been an audiophile enthusiast for decades, and solid, traditional gold plated shielded hardwire connections suit me fine.

[Raphis]

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

I run with a soft but discernable threshold.

 

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

My brain has trouble discerning good from bad hits in my trashy ground and in particular the quiet (typically deep) signals are the ones most likely to get missed in my case.

Hmm, why do you run with a threshold when I remember you stating in a previous discussion that you run the Nox in all metal mode?? That’s just another superfluous audio signal you have in the background.  What purpose does it provide you?  Without any notching out of your TID’s, audio threshold can be silenced.  As I stated above, you want your audio path to your ears to be as unadulterated as possible to be able to concentrate on hearing those very “difficult to discern” deeper targets.

[GB_Amateur]

21 minutes ago, Raphis said:

So you do use your hardwire audio cable...it’s just not directly connected to your Nox 😂.

Hey, what's so funny about that??!!  😠  (just kidding, of course)  I've been using the stock Sunray Pro Golds (non-CTX version) headphones without modification.  Simon recommended cutting off the end of the cord and attaching a 3.5 mm plug but I've been dragging my heals since then I'll need an adapter to use the Garrett Z-lynk Transmitter/Receiver system for my other detectors.  In cold weather it's no annoyance since I just stuff the cord into my jacket/sweatshirt.  In summer I use earbuds with 3.5 mm plug standard (and associated lightweight chord).   But in spring/fall when it's cool enough for over-ear headphones but still warm enough not to require a jacket, the stock cord length can be a bit distracting.

Now that I've defended my quirkiness, I'll agree to at some point try your direct method (preferably after I've converted my Pro Golds to the 3.5 mm plug -- I really have grown to dislike adapters) to see if it provides my hearing with better information than through the WM08 system.  Now, though, I'm wondering if a direct connection of the non-CTX version of the Pro Golds will exhibit that wiring incompatibility that cause SunRay to make a special version....  I'm sure I'll find that out quickly.

(In a subsequent post Raphis said:)

Hmm, why do you run with a threshold when I remember you stating in a previous discussion that you run the Nox in all metal mode?? That’s just another superfluous audio signal you have in the background.  What purpose does it provide you?

Interesting question (meaning it has me thinking).  One is out of habit, both from natural gold detecting (which I don't get to do much of...) and another being from the use of other detectors to make sure the detector is operating in the state I want (not muted/off for some unintended reason).  But related is my concern (apparently unneeded or you wouldn't have asked) that quiet signals can hide below the threshold.  That's certainly true with some detectors but now that you've brought it up I'm thinking maybe not relevant for the Eqx?  (I do recall reading that the Eqx threshold is not the standard type threshold...).  Keep banging away at me because I'm here to learn.  👍

[Raphis]

36 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

But related is my concern (apparently unneeded or you wouldn't have asked) that quiet signals can hide below the threshold.  That's certainly true with some detectors but now that you've brought it up I'm thinking maybe not relevant for the Eqx?

Do you think you’ll be waiting/listening with bated breath for a whisper signal on your Nox that only drops the threshold signal while you’re in all metal mode? How would you even pinpoint a dropout of threshold without any “beep” recognition? No can do, GB. 😬 Maybe you’d prefer hunting in pinpoint mode and only concentrate on digging the whispery targets? (Sorry for my sarcasm 😆)

Remove that threshold, my friend!  You won’t miss it for turf hunting the deepies one bit!!
 

The person who asks and challenges the most questions is the person that will make the most improvement/gains in their endeavors!! 👍🏼👍🏼