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I guess we can’t add videos to our posts?  Anyway, the default  setting FE and F2 is 2.  I set out a gold ring, old square I ron nail, and quarter. With FE or F2 set at defaults of 2, it seems to mask these targets.  Set to zero all is good.  (This is an EQ600). This seems to contradict the original videos that came out when the detector did.  Beach2 program.

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14 hours ago, bklein said:

I guess we can’t add videos to our posts?  Anyway, the default  setting FE and F2 is 2.  I set out a gold ring, old square I ron nail, and quarter. With FE or F2 set at defaults of 2, it seems to mask these targets.  Set to zero all is good.  (This is an EQ600). This seems to contradict the original videos that came out when the detector did.  Beach2 program.

I believe you can post links of your videos from video hosting sites such as YouTube.


I would need more information on your particular setup, but I have really not seen the masking with F2 be as severe as it was with FE.  I have seen video tests that demonstrate that.  See this discussion and video by Steve Herschbach that goes into depth on the subject.  

 

To me, use of iron bias is not an either/or, all or nothing setting.  It is site and situation dependent.  I like to start with the recommended default setting (2 for 600, 6 for 800) and adjust from there.

I find that I am more likely to dig a falsing ferrous target without it than be surprised by a masked target with it engaged, in my experience.  I still generally dig the iron even with iron bias, when I have sufficient time on site to grid and take my time.  But when I am limited in time on site, like a one and done situation, I would rather play the odds with a rare masking situation than waste my time digging falsing nails and big iron the whole time at an iron infested site.  
 

Appropriate coil control and use of wiggle to zero in on adjacent targets is essential, as well as compensating by using the appropriate recovery speed to counter any severe masking effects.  Again, without seeing your video I have no idea what your setup was.  One drawback to the 600 is that the maximum selectable recovery speed is 3 which equates to an 800 recovery of 6.  I sometimes run recovery speed up to 7, if necessary.  

Also, I recommend running your tests in other modes and at IB 1 as well.  IB does a great job on falsing crown caps at the beach BTW (but there are other “tells” on those too).  HTH

 

 

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10 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

I find that I am more likely to dig a falsing ferrous target without it than be surprised by a masked target with it engaged, in my experience.  I still generally dig the iron even with iron bias, when I have sufficient time on site to grid and take my time.  But when I am limited in time on site, like a one and done situation, I would rather play the odds with a rare masking situation than waste my time digging falsing nails and big iron the whole time at an iron infested site.  

I just want to elaborate, some. 

I doubt many here have the experience with iron targets on a salt beach, as the Mexican 1-2 and 5 peso coin are ferrous. I can easily run into 70 of these a day. 

So here is what I have learned. The higher the sensitivity and lower the IB the more iron wrap around occurs. 

I have learned to hunt in one tone. I think there are multiple advantages [for another thread] But for this thread I will discuss one. 

One tone allows for the best way to identify iron. With the detector in beach 2, IB FE6,  and recovery 6. It is beyond easy to almost identify iron 100% down to depths I have never seen.  I repeat, down to depths I have never seen. 

I do hunt mostly in Discrimination but any kind of a tick gets investigated in the horseshoe mode.  Here looking at the target from all directions for ANY breakdown of the target or double sound will be your indication of Iron.  

For me the TID is only a small part, how the target sounds in horseshoe mode is the bigger part. ANYTHING and repeat anything that single rings is getting dug, PERIOD. A single ring is non-ferrous 99% of the time!   

I guess to the OP, never have I had a surprised masked target. Not saying it could not happen. But there are so many variables. Checking your targets from different angles can tell a story. 

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5 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

I find that I am more likely to dig a falsing ferrous target without it than be surprised by a masked target with it engaged, in my experience.

Chase, I'm really having trouble figuring this sentence out.  Would you mind elaborating (or giving an example)?

 

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1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

Chase, I'm really having trouble figuring this sentence out.  Would you mind elaborating (or giving an example)?

 

It simply means that even if the target is indicating fully ferrous with IB applied, if I have the time to dig it all, I’m going to dig it.  When I do do that, I have not encountered a completely masked non-ferrous target in the hole ever.  Yes, I have not dug every pure ferrous target signal I’ve encountered, but all my “surprise” situations where I’ve pulled both ferrous and non-ferrous out of a hole have been iffy mixed ferrous/non-ferrous target signals with IB applied.

Setting IB=0 is a complete waste of my time in thick iron.  Guaranteed to be chasing numerous false signals which I am then willing to quiet down with IB and confidently play the odds that it will be highly unlikely that I will walk over a completely masked target.

 

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This is a great thread, and I am reading it intently.  The old site near my home is a mix of modern aluminum trash at more shallow depths, and old iron at deeper locations.  Running F2+0 this past weekend, here are a few of the high tone "iffy" signals I dug (clad quarter added for size reference).  I didn't try increasing the F2 reading as outlined above and in Steve's thread/video... but will do some testing along those line next weekend.  I was hoping for a surprise deep silver.. but instead... deep iron... all at 10"+.

 20210301_185747.thumb.jpg.e3e489d561a419d1783ca5cef575d9a0.jpg

So I'm torn... in one case... passing these signals up as iron would be nice (and especially on Chase's comments that he hasn't yet been surprised by an iron false being a coin - if I am reading his comment correctly - and even if they exist, they are rare).  But on the other hand... I could see how a nearby coin would be completely over-shadowed by iron of this size (and rust) at those depths... so passing on the iron might completely mask a smaller high conductive target at similar or more depth.  

Technically, I'm not anywhere near where you Chase, or you GBA are... but your comments - as well as all the comments on the linked post started by Steve... while drinking from a firehose in some cases... some of the "water" is getting in.... if nothing else, by sheer force.  ;).  

Thanks for the detailed and on-going education!

Tim.

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2 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Setting IB=0....

Since you are one of the most precise posters here (maybe more than I :biggrin:), have I caught you in an ambiguous statement?  Or are FE=0 and F2=0 identical?  (We could assume that, but assuming metal detecting companies are logical is one of the biggest erroneous assumptions one can make, IMO.  At least no one's life is at stake making such an assumption, though.)

One thing I've learned from this thread is that I need to experiment more with Iron Bias.  My testing so far has either been (checked both FE and F2) at full max (= 9) vs. full min (= 0) on my Eqx 800.  I was looking for clear differences (max setting vs. min setting) and seldom found anything significant, the exception being partially rusted crown caps which particularly in F2 showed pronounced differences.  But I don't get many crown caps (and note I said 'rusted' since for my sites' recent drops are particularly unusual -- one every couple hours?).  Where I could be aided by iron biasing would be either for nails falsing in coin zones (those devils are everywhere) and probably sheet metal falsing in certain sites.

Fortunately for me the winter weather we've had the last couple weeks has turned to early spring!  Tomorrow, tomorrow, I love you, tomorrow.  Detecting is only a day away!!

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18 minutes ago, Tiftaaft said:

I was hoping for a surprise deep silver.. but instead... deep iron... all at 10"+.

Upper right looks like copper wire.  I find that a lot.  (But photos can fool.)  I make a groove with a triangular file to check for copper and its alloys on otherwise junk pieces that aren't attracted to a magnet.  What is that piece next to the quarter, some kind of weed eater head?  Looks pretty scary if it rotates!

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49 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

Upper right looks like copper wire.  I find that a lot.  (But photos can fool.)

Yes, definitely copper wire, not.much you can do about that, especially at depth and coiled... that one sounded pretty sweet.  I just threw it in the picture.  Not iron for sure.  

49 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

What is that piece next to the quarter, some kind of weed eater head?  Looks pretty scary if it rotates!

That is some kind of lid I think.  It says "do not re-use" and "safety guard required" around the edge, and the mesh appears to be reinforcement to the part of the lid that has been broken away.  I haven't handled it much, as I think it may be asbestos mesh.  But no clue what it was in its original life.  

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