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Quick note:  I have a tendency to say I'm going to do something (like test a certain coil/target in my teststand) and then fail to get around to it in a timely manner.  I will be investigating this site with both ML Equinox w/12"x15" coil and the White's TDI/SPP (haven't decided on coil; maybe try more than one) but since it's a schoolyard and school is in session, that limits my searching (until their summer break) mainly to weekends (and this weekend my be too rainy...).  Further, I need them to cut the grass and when I drove by yesterday it hadn't happened yet.

I'll make it a priority to report back as soon as I get the opportunity to work this site.  Unless something unforseen occurs I should be able to make multiple hunts there this year.  It's a good opportunity to experiment with detectors as well as to test my hypothesis that there are some deep (old) coins there.

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GBA, I couldn't help it... spent most of the day thinking about it, and decided to spend the waning hour and a half of daylight at my old school ground with the ATX.  Only I can fully appreciate the p

GB :  I know there are some coin/relic guys who will try to use those balls-to-the-walls pulse machines , for coins/relics.  Since, sure, you can "get a coin to 1.5 ft. deep", blah blah.  I saw a few

I'm not sure if this is the same reaction other PI's get, but on my GPX, coins hit louder and narrower than big nails do. Nails, for me, sound longer, and coins hit faster if that makes sense.  Coins

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17 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Got nothing to prove to anyone else, ...

Sure.  Yes.  And so the claim goes on to exist as just that :  A claim.  😕  It Might be true, it might not.  Because the claimant says just what you're saying:  "I've got nothing to prove".   🙄

 

But the moment any "claim" goes to be shown as meritorious (in actual field tests by known aces in-those-fields), then:  The world rushes to avail themselves of the new and proven mousetraps.  They can not argue with side-by-side flagged testing results.   It's no longer "just a claim" now.

 

And such has been the case of all the leaps of tech. in md'ing that we've seen in our mutual decades .   When the older school folk see their #sses get kicked, then :  News spreads like wildfire .  And everyone else rushes to avail themselves of the better mousetraps.   

 

But if there is never any such tests going on, then alas:  These steps never come to fruition 😞

 

And when I read your above quote, I couldn't help but wonder "where have I heard that come-back-line before ?".   🤔  Then I remembered :  It was with dowsing:  The same fall-back line occurs from the dowser-faithful:   When the dowser is challenged to "show me" and "let's test it" and "let's compare", then:   His fall-back lines are identical.

 

That's not to say that the claimant's claims aren't true and meritorious !  It's just that:  You have to wonder why they aren't "chomping at the bit" to show the silly-old-schoolers that it can indeed be done.   I understand that you're busy, you're hours away, you don't care, etc.... I get it .  But it's odd that, if this is true, that *someone*, *somewhere* (even if not you), isn't simply introducing this new and better mousetrap to the world.  Instead, it's exactly the opposite :  Those that have tried to insist it can work to outpace standard machines in all relic and park-turf scenarios, generally disappear and are never heard from again, the moment a nail-ridden or trash-ridden location presents itself. 

 

Perhaps these persons simply didn't "practice long enough" or "didn't have their settings done correctly" or "didn't have the right machine", etc.....   Ok, sure .  But then :   you gotta wonder.

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It's a nice narrative you have Tom, so just roll with it. If you doubt a GPX 5000 can hit coins deeper than your VLF there is not much that can be done for you. If you actually thought that to be true, then you might be able to envision situations where that might be used to advantage. Your mistake is in thinking that I and others are advocating a PI as a direct replacement for a VLF. You make it clear why that would be silly, and in turn that's why I'd not advocate for it. The entire premise is classic red herring, and I don't want to play.

You should haul your VLF to Diggin in Virginia for a lesson in PI vs VLF, if it is something you actually cared enough about to open your mind. Talk to those folks that have exhausted what a VLF can do, and have turned to PI as a result. Do they dig junk? Yes. What of it? I truly think you are missing the point of it all.

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44 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

It's a nice narrative you have Tom, so just roll with it. If you doubt a GPX 5000 can hit coins deeper than your VLF there is not much that can be done for you. If you actually thought that to be true, then you might be able to envision situations where that might be used to advantage. Your mistake is in thinking that I and others are advocating a PI as a direct replacement for a VLF. You make it clear why that would be silly, and in turn that's why I'd not advocate for it. The entire premise is classic red herring, and I don't want to play.

You should haul your VLF to Diggin in Virginia for a lesson in PI vs VLF, if it is something you actually cared enough about to open your mind. Talk to those folks that have exhausted what a VLF can do, and have turned to PI as a result. Do they dig junk? Yes. What of it? I truly think you are missing the point of it all.

On the contrary, I know-for-a-fact that a GPX 5000 can hit coins deeper than any standard discriminator coin/relic machine can.   Heck, they can get a coin to 1.5 ft. with ease.  Right ?  Versus a standard discriminator that starts to waffle on dimes over 8 or 9" deep.  And starts to waffle on quarters at 10" deep, etc....   No dispute there !

If simple "balls to the walls depth" were the issue-at-hand, then what you are saying is true.  No questions asked.  Ok, then why aren't we seeing guys take the GPX 5000 to junky urban turfed parks and digging those deeper silver coins ?  Why were the guys I saw with GPX 5000 "nowhere to be found" at the iron-ridden cellar hole locations in the VA hunt ?

And if you are not advocating the PI as a park machine that can spank a standard machine, then I stand corrected.  Someone on this thread made the claim.  I thought you were confirming it.  If not, I stand corrected.

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1 hour ago, Tom_in_CA said:

Sure.  Yes.  And so the claim goes on to exist as just that :  A claim.  😕  It Might be true, it might not.  Because the claimant says just what you're saying:  "I've got nothing to prove".   🙄

 

But the moment any "claim" goes to be shown as meritorious (in actual field tests by known aces in-those-fields), then:  The world rushes to avail themselves of the new and proven mousetraps.  They can not argue with side-by-side flagged testing results.   It's no longer "just a claim" now.

 

And such has been the case of all the leaps of tech. in md'ing that we've seen in our mutual decades .   When the older school folk see their #sses get kicked, then :  News spreads like wildfire .  And everyone else rushes to avail themselves of the better mousetraps.   

 

But if there is never any such tests going on, then alas:  These steps never come to fruition 😞

 

And when I read your above quote, I couldn't help but wonder "where have I heard that come-back-line before ?".   🤔  Then I remembered :  It was with dowsing:  The same fall-back line occurs from the dowser-faithful:   When the dowser is challenged to "show me" and "let's test it" and "let's compare", then:   His fall-back lines are identical.

 

That's not to say that the claimant's claims aren't true and meritorious !  It's just that:  You have to wonder why they aren't "chomping at the bit" to show the silly-old-schoolers that it can indeed be done.   I understand that you're busy, you're hours away, you don't care, etc.... I get it .  But it's odd that, if this is true, that *someone*, *somewhere* (even if not you), isn't simply introducing this new and better mousetrap to the world.  Instead, it's exactly the opposite :  Those that have tried to insist it can work to outpace standard machines in all relic and park-turf scenarios, generally disappear and are never heard from again, the moment a nail-ridden or trash-ridden location presents itself. 

 

Perhaps these persons simply didn't "practice long enough" or "didn't have their settings done correctly" or "didn't have the right machine", etc.....   Ok, sure .  But then :   you gotta wonder.

Tom,

I would like to respond to your post with my experience of using the TDI. I got one of the first production run of the TDI’s. My main intention in using the detector was for nugget hunting. Unfortunately the type of gold in the area we hunt the TDI was useless as well as other PI’s. So the TDI basically sat in the closet fo years. Basically using nothing but a VLF type detectors over the years the TDI wasn’t an easy detector to use and understand. This issue of using and understanding was more my fault as it was easier to use a VLF detector and enjoy detecting without second guessing what the detector was telling me.

I finally retired and decided to spend more time and learn how to use the TDI. I met with Reg Sniff a few times in local parks and listen and watch how was using the TDI. For some reason I didn’t click with TDI right way and it became a very slow and sometimes difficult learning process. But I was determine to learn how to use the detector and have the success that Reg Sniff had.

I have detected with friends and club members where I hear a potential deep target with the TDI and then have them see if they can get a response. This is what I base my comments on the depth capabilities of the TDI over a VLF detector. Again this based on conditions in local parks in my area, they my not work in other areas.

I’m glad I committed to learning on how to use the TDI and continue to learn the more I use it. My reward is finding older coins each time I use it.

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4 minutes ago, Glenn in CO said:

Tom,

I would like to respond to your post with my experience of using the TDI. I got one of the first production run of the TDI’s. My main intention in using the detector was for nugget hunting. Unfortunately the type of gold in the area we hunt the TDI was useless as well as other PI’s. So the TDI basically sat in the closet fo years. Basically using nothing but a VLF type detectors over the years the TDI wasn’t an easy detector to use and understand. This issue of using and understanding was more my fault as it was easier to use a VLF detector and enjoy detecting without second guessing what the detector was telling me.

I finally retired and decided to spend more time and learn how to use the TDI. I met with Reg Sniff a few times local parks and listen and watch how was using the TDI. For some reason I didn’t click with TDI right way and it became a very slow and sometimes difficult learning process. But I was determine to learn how to use the detector and have the success that Reg Sniff had.

I have detected with friends and club members where I hear a potential deep target with the TDI and then have them see if they can get a response. This is what I base my comments on the depth capabilities of the TDI over a VLF detector. Again this based on conditions in local parks in my area, they my not work in other areas.

I’m glad I committed to learning on how to use the TDI and continue to learn the more I use it. My reward is finding older coins each time I use it.

 

 

I'm not disputing your experience.  In concluding that your TDI, with the proper ears and training, can spank a normal coin-machine in turf.   I'm just saying that:  I'd love to see it in actual action. 

 

To see in action (versus claims) is typically when ANY of us "switches machines", eh ?  Ie.: When you see your buddy spank you, then you "perk up" and take note, eh ?   And if he shows you a flagged signal that you have to admit "I wouldn't have heard".  And then he proceeds to dig a barber or seated at a foot, then .... no more talk or claims.   Then there's actual in-field-comparisons.   And this "in-field-comparisons" is what has driven-the-market for 60+ yrs.   BFO to TR all-metal.  TR all-metal to TR disc.  TR disc. to motion disc.   and so forth, up-to-the-present.    Each time/evolution, if/when you talk to the old-timers, it is invariably that they saw the limitations of their own gear, with actual in-field-results.  Not just claims, but actual side-by-side results.

 

For example :  When the Explorers (back in the XS and II days ~20 yrs. ago) were still unheard of in CA, a particular fellow was posting his show & tell from certain hammered parks, in his particular city.   That I happened to know, for a fact, were hammered.   Such that I'd knock myself silly to get another few wheaties or a silver there.  Yet he'd routinely post "3 silver dimes and a dozen wheaties".  HHhhmmmm.  You can bet several of us, uh....  "took note".

 

We were able to get the guy to agree to meet us in a certain park . Where silver *starts* at 8" (7" or less is typically clad).   And the results were earth-shattering:   He could show us signals (to our Whites, Fishers, etc...) that we had to admit we would not have heard (or couldn't have made a proper "call" over).  Yet he was getting them with ease, and correctly "calling" them time after time .   You can bet that within 3 or 4 short years, the ONLY thing you saw being swung in CA, was Minelab.  Doh !

 

If someone sees a claim like this, and goes to buy his own pulse and rush to the urban blighted park, he might fail and hate it.   But guess what ?  The proponents would merely say : "You didn't practice long enough". Or "You didn't have it set right", etc.....   See ?   So it's NEVER conclusive for someone to try it on their own and say "this sucks".   The better way is to get two acknowledged pro's, and let them do some flagged testing.   And yes, there's ways to prevent bias in such tests (the subject of another post).

 

There was a fellow here at the beach swinging a TDI on an eroded beach zone, that was RIDDLED with iron.  And ... granted, he no doubt got deep.  And ... granted, he could no doubt get tinsel thin chains.   And .... granted, he could no doubt cut nasty black sand.  Yet at the end of each day, we had 3x or 4x his goodie-count.   By the end of that erosion episode, we spotted him sporting a conventional machine.  But I suppose the push-back would be to say he was doing it wrong, or needed more practice, right ?

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25 minutes ago, Tom_in_CA said:

And if you are not advocating the PI as a park machine that can spank a standard machine, then I stand corrected.  Someone on this thread made the claim.  I thought you were confirming it.  If not, I stand corrected.

I've used PI detectors to pull coins out of parks your VLF is not going to hit. That's not the same thing as telling people to buy a PI for park detecting. If the circumstance warranted, I would pull out a PI to hunt a park. But wisely, using smarts. Most commentary about all this stuff seems to assume people that have no clue as to strategy and tactics, and using the right tool for the job. I know my tools, I know what they can do, and I will use any of them in any situation I can imagine where it might offer me an advantage. I will use Equinox Beach Mode to hunt nuggets in a desert, and know of a case where that would be beneficial. I do not make rules for myself like "can't use PI in park".

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47 minutes ago, Tom_in_CA said:

There was a fellow here at the beach swinging a TDI on an eroded beach zone, that was RIDDLED with iron.  And ... granted, he no doubt got deep.  And ... granted, he could no doubt get tinsel thin chains.   And .... granted, he could no doubt cut nasty black sand.  Yet at the end of each day, we had 3x or 4x his goodie-count.   By the end of that erosion episode, we spotted him sporting a conventional machine.  But I suppose the push-back would be to say he was doing it wrong, or needed more practice, right ?

Never advocated or recommend using a TDI in a iron riddle site or area.

If I remember correctly there was a White’s dealer in the Bay Area using a TDI and was very successful in parks.

I guess if we happen to meet sometime in the future you will be wondering!

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18 minutes ago, Glenn in CO said:

Never advocated or recommend using a TDI in a iron riddle site or area.

If I remember correctly there was a White’s dealer in the Bay Area using a TDI and was very successful in parks.

I guess if we happen to meet sometime in the future you will be wondering!

No.  There is no Whites dealer in the Bay area using a TDI in park-turf, and being "very successful", that I know of. 

 

You're not talking about the clown that thinks he can tell aluminum apart from gold ?  With "sounds and tones", are you ?  If so, his claims go silent in a heartbeat (and  you hear the sounds of crickets), when you invite him out to the nearest blighted urban park.  And say "show me how much gold you can get, while passing any amount of aluminum".   And if you ask him for ratios of gold vs aluminum when his supposed "art of differentiation" is applied:  It becomes immediately apparent that he's just doing random odds.  Or old-fashioned ring enhancement strategy.  And is NOT "telling aluminum apart from gold".   Did you mean that guy ?

 

I know of no one in CA  using the TDI for turf .  And when you say "successful", are you talking about gold jewelry ?  If so, sure, you can't beat a TDI for ability @ low conductors.   But ... heck ... since when did ANY machine lack for low conductors in junky turf ?  You can turn down the disc. knob on ANY machine, and "fill your apron" full of low conductors , non-stop, in CA parks.

 

Or did you mean "successful" as in deep old silver ?  If so, I know of no one in CA who is "successful with the TDI" for that.  If you know who this fellow is, I would love to meet and compare over flagged signals with him.

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6 minutes ago, Tom_in_CA said:

....  I would love to meet and compare over flagged signals with him.

But if you're referring to the fellow who thinks he can tell aluminum apart from gold, then ... no ... his technique is to "strip-mine".  And then ... sure anyone who strip-mines turf will, yes, eventually get a ring or a V-nickel that the cherry-picker (who was angling for deep high conductors) will miss.  This is a given.  So the goal would need to be pre-stated.  If it's "who comes in with the most old silver at the end of the day", then THAT is the test I'm curious about.    Not "who can strip-mine and get a nickel or tinsel thin chain", etc.....  If that were my objective, then sure:  I'd enter into relic mindset, and then I too can strip-mine.  

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