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15” Coil Cable Wiggle Test


bklein

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With Equinox on Allmetal in a heavily mineralized terrain you see too much signal from the field / -VDI/, which is also transferred to the calculation of the VDI target. -Setting Discrimination to 0,, and even better to + 1, + 2- eliminates this problem. .

The setting of the recovery speed to the value 6-7 .., and also the setting of Iron bias F2, to 0 best... or F2 to 3max/eq 800/ .. is clearly important.

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30 minutes ago, bklein said:

I disagree that this is a user problem. 

I guess I would have to disagree with this statement until I see some evidence that you you are internalizing the feedback and suggestions you are getting.  You are focused on settings, yet several have suggested using the stock coil (which will pick up a lot less of the ground noise associated with your black sand problem) and altering your swing pattern and coil control habits yet I see no evidence of you heeding this advice.

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Personally, I am not a fan of cross-talk and arguing publicly on this forum. However, the original poster seems to prefer this form of communication. Several of us have taken time out of our day and tried to offer suggestions to the original poster and have given him sound tips like just starting with the default Beach settings and gradually adjusting from there to fit his situation. Basically, I don't see this process going any further as the original poster is going to do whatever he likes eventually, blame his equipment and us or anyone else that tries to help him after he has asked for help to address his problems. I have yet to read two simple words at any point in any of his posts for the help that has been offered during this topic or from ones he started or joined in the past, which are................Thank you.

So, I'm done.

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On 4/30/2021 at 12:10 AM, bklein said:

When I disabled Horseshoe, the output went pretty quiet over the black sand.  Makes sense as the negative numbers were disc'd out.  Wouldn't that make you think there is no falseing issue

It's not a falsing issue. The black sand is being detected and giving you a signal due to its iron content. The ID that the detector is giving for the black sand is correct. You can't make those signals go away without drastically losing depth.

The only settings available to work with for black sand seem to be Ground Balance, Sensitivity, Recovery Speed, and Iron Bias. I would bury some targets and see what combination of those settings gets the best depth.

You can choose to hear the low tones or to not hear them. It's up to you. I prefer to hear them so that I know when iron or black sand is present. I have the tone volume turned way down so that they are just in the background and not bothersome, and make adjustments depending on the amount of low tones that I hear. I don't try to make the low tones disappear. I simply adjust the settings to get the best depth for each situation. Target size and conductivity may also play a role in the choice of settings.

 

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5 minutes ago, Badger-NH said:

I would bury some targets and see what combination of those settings get the best depth.

Yes!  Takes a lot of the guess work out wondering if you are missing targets when the situation may be simply be there are no targets there in the first place.  Which makes it hard to determine whether your settings tweaks are just lowering noise or also lowering your ability to hear legit targets.

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10 hours ago, bklein said:

I really wonder Midalake if when you are pushing for 1 tone you really intend to say 2 tones - if you set 1 tone you lose the iron grunt.  I don't see  a point in that.  Running one tone the negative numbers sound like the positive numbers (1 tone) if Horseshoe on.

No, I fully meant one tone. I have spoke on several reasons. I will elaborate on two more.

1. My detector runs just as stable in Horseshoe mode, and in water contact one understands when the disturbance of the waters effect has subsided better. 

2. Secondly, I hunt in Mexico and the 1,2 and 5 peso coin are ferrous. These coins like to iron wraparound. The deeper and crustier the more wraparound will occur. Since it required lots of secondary checking of targets going to Horseshoe mode, I made the decision to stay in horseshoe mode as a time saver. As there are many of these coins on the beach, 100's per hunt. 

3. I one tone hunt because I DON'T want my detector chirping at me in different tones. I can tell just fine when something is in the non-ferrous scale and for me everything non-ferrous come out of the beach. I do not need another tone to tell me that! 

4. The magic is double ring of an iron target and single ring of a non-ferrous target in horseshoe mode.

 I have recovered non-ferrous targets in horseshoe mode that did not confirm in discrimination mode, in fact they never made a sound. Nothing of value yet, but that day will come. 

Well I guess there was 4 things. 

 

  

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12 hours ago, Raphis said:

Many just want an “easier way“ or a path of least resistance in becoming successful in their endeavor to be a highly confident/successful treasure hunter ...it’s a typical human trait....we can’t knock anyone for wanting an easier way to success, but in reality, not many endeavors in life come that easy......In order to find elusive targets (or sometimes any diggable/keeper target), especially in trash (Ferrous/non-ferrous), heavily mineralized ground conditions, or areas with moderate, varying EMI, will take more than “proper” machine settings....in other words, machine settings are only one part of the equation for success.  So many times, I would share my machine’s  settings  with various members across the country, but that typically wouldn’t lead to an increase in their keeper finds.  Coil control/speed, a very good ear for actual targets in noisy environments (noise tolerance), along with spending many hrs out in the field trialing/erring various settings along with other acquired detecting skills for most challenging sites is the only way to become a better hunter who’s brimming with the confidence of finding keeper targets, even before arriving at their hunting site.   I’ve seen many hunters never able to become comfortable with a new machine for various reasons they cannot fathom, and go back to their trusty machine they’ve grown used to for many years.  Sometimes a new machine will just click with a new user, other times it won’t.

(Raphis, I've singled out your post as a good jumping off point, not as something I disagree with.)  I see these more complicated detectors -- lots of settings available -- as multiple detectors.  Many detectors, especially those from the past, have few settings to change (and potentially confuse).  Asking someone else for their settings has the advantage of a good starting point.  Andy Sabisch's book has several example settings which he got from experienced (at the time) ML Equinox users from multiple continents.  Those are helpful starting points.  Yes, some people take such things too literally and fail to realize they are suggestions of things to try, not to lock onto.

I know an extremely successful detectorist (I base that on his old coin finds collection) who let me try out his White's V3i.  He was giving me all kinds of dos and don'ts which I didn't really appreciate/need but tolerated.  I asked him about different settings and he said "oh, I just leave them in the defaults -- I don't need all that fancy adjustment".  Then he said something else telling:  "I probably should have just stayed with my White's DFX."

No argument from me that detecting can be complicated, particularly in some sites and with certain goals.  Not everyone wants to go that deeply into the endeavor.  As long as everyone (super experienced user included) understands that everyone has different expectations, pain tolerance levels, time to invest, etc. then things flow more smoothly.

I'm one of those in-between detectorists, not deeply experienced but wanting to "be like Mike".  The 'Mikes' on this site seem to almost exclusively use 50 tones when dry land detecting for coins and relics.  I tried it once -- went back to 5 tones.  I tried it again later -- went back to 5 tones.  I tried it a 3rd time -- back to 5 tones.  Finally I realized I wasn't getting anywhere and was effectively (after the first couple attempts) wasting my time.  I emphasize I, me, my.  It's OK not to emulate the Mikes.  (I also find some of the arguments of why 50 tones is 'better' misleading.  But if a person's brain can handle it then it certainly makes sense.  The more useful data available, the better the chances of identifying what is worth spending  time digging.)

I don't write this to counter the advice others have generously given in this thread, but rather to attempt to bring things to a middle ground (so to speak).  I'm one of those who appreciates the advice of others and seek it often.  I'm also one of those who realizes that the advice may not be for me.  And when I give advice/suggestions and it seems to go in one ear and out the other, I can accept it and move on.  I'm no worse having attempted to help one person and for whatever reason, not having accomplished that.  The advantage of a forum is that maybe it helped someone else, including the advisor.

 

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1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

Asking someone else for their settings has the advantage of a good starting point.  Andy Sabisch's book has several example settings which he got from experienced (at the time) ML Equinox users from multiple continents.  Those are helpful starting points.  Yes, some people take such things too literally and fail to realize they are suggestions of things to try, not to lock onto.

Hi GB......Yes, a successful hunter’s settings could be a good starting point for other th’ers who have the same machine and are willing to try any suggestions that are offered to them....likewise, there’s always a multitude of forumites willing to help another th’er out with detector issues....That’s what a moderately high % of detecting forums’ content is about...trying to minimize the learning curve of a machine.....Yet, no matter how much online help is given to some th’ers, for various reasons, the help given doesn’t “sink in” with the th’er.....it’s like the old adage, “A picture is worth 1000 words”.....it’s the time out in the field; comparing signals with other hunters who have the same machine as you; it’s the trial and error of settings at sites in your own hunt area....it’s breaking old/bad habits from previous machine experience....these are the most important prerequisites a th’er will need to acquire to be more confident/successful.  These traits take time to acquire...there’s no quick fix....some (“naturally gifted” ??) are able to acquire these traits much quicker (days/weeks) while others take much longer, (weeks/months)....Then there are some that need more time to acquire the necessary skills (beyond detector settings), but unfortunately give up too soon (too difficult), while others persist on (never say die attitude). A th’ers emotion/passion for the hobby, along with a willingness to never give up will lead them to a more productive/confident experience with whatever machine(s) has brought them “repeated” success during a multitude of hunts.

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14 minutes ago, Raphis said:

it’s the time out in the field; comparing signals with other hunters who have the same machine as you; it’s the trial and error of settings at sites in your own hunt area....it’s breaking old/bad habits from previous machine experience....these are the most important prerequisites a th’er will need to acquire to be more confident/successful.  These traits take time to acquire...there’s no quick fix....some (“naturally gifted” ??) are able to acquire these traits much quicker (days/weeks) while others take much longer, (weeks/months)....Then there are some that need more time to acquire the necessary skills (beyond detector settings), but unfortunately give up too soon (too difficult), while others persist on (never say die attitude). A th’ers emotion/passion for the hobby, along with a willingness to never give up will lead them to a more productive/confident experience with whatever machine(s) has brought them “repeated” success during a multitude of hunts.

I agree wholeheartedly, and thanks (sincerely) for this advice and others you've given.

We all have prejudices (not necessarily a negative word, as it's typically portrayed), some positive and others not so.  We are all products of our past as well as limited by our raw capabilities.

Site, detectorist, detector -- in that order.  Most important (for everyone, IMO): find good/better sites.  Next in importance, improve your detecting skills.  The right detector is important, too, but how one defines 'right' is as varied and the sites and detectorists.

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