Input Requested: What Are The Major Federal Oversteps Or Abuses With Mining Today?

[jasong]

Please, no rants, opinion, or anything off the topic. Mining only. Claims should be substantiated and supported with valid sources and evidence. Anecdotal evidence is not useful here. Please be able to cite which particular law or regulation an abuse or overstep is occuring upon. I'm especially interested if such a regulation is in violation of the General Mining Act of 1872.

 

Federal only (BLM, EPA, DEQ, USFS, etc), unless it's a state issue where they are clearly violating federal law.

 

I've read about people's complaints online for years. So let's imagine that over the next few days we have someone's ear who is in a position and has the power to really change things for a moment and is interested in truly representing the people. What would the mining community take that opportunity to say to them? 

[Steve Herschbach]

Oh boy. I am not interested in this turning into politics. That means no asides or snide remarks regarding liberals or conservatives, republicans or democrats any particular politician or politicians. To quote my good buddy Joe Friday...

 

 

With that as a ground rule I doubt you will get much response here Jason, though I may be surprised. Most of what you get on subjects like this is very long on opinions and very short on facts. Those that have facts rarely want to post them on a public forum - maybe you will get some PMs on the subject. If you are dying for an earful I can however point you in the direction of some other forums where that sort of stuff is more meat and potatoes.

[jasong]

Right, that's why I prefaced it with the request for no rants or opinion and was clear on requiring substantiation. I've found people are generally most civil here from the other forums I've seen so that's why I posted it here.

[IDdesertman]

Most of what you get on subjects like this is very long on opinions and very lean on facts.

 

Boy isn't that the truth.

Good luck on your fact finding mission Jason!  

[chickenminer]

Hmmm,

  I can understand asking for folks to back up their opinion, but to request NO opinion on a public forum ? Leaves me out

 

 If you want to read mining people's complaints against government agency actions, backed by their 'statement of reasoning', I'd suggest 

you read past IBLA decisions. That'll keep you busy for awhile!

[Steve Herschbach]

Here is one. OSHA recogizes self employed people (sole proprietors) as being separate from being an employee, so if you work alone you can ignore many rules an employer need worry about with employees.

MSHA has nothing that separates the self employed person from the employee. The way they see it, you are your own employee. That means MSHA can cite you for not having a board up that posts safety notices to yourself. You also have to have a duly designated office onsite to contain your required MSHA documents. This can be a box with a sign on it designating it the official office. Lacking the office can get you cited. Lacking the documents can get you cited.

MSHA claims jurisdiction over suction dredges and a guy running a gold pan on a mining claim. There is no action on a mining claim that has sold product that is excluded from MSHA jurisdiction. They are the 10,000,000 lb elephant in the room and will put a serious hurt on the more casual small miners if they ever get the funding to extend their reach as far as they believe they are authorized. They took a tiny taste of what it might take to get involved in suction dredging in Alaska a few years back and the ONLY reason they backed off was lack of manpower/funding to do so.

If you own a claim, and you mine and sell some gold from that claim (engage in commerce), you are a mine as defined by MSHA and fall under their jurisdiction. They can bury a sole proprietor in rules, regulations, and ferocious fines as they are now more driven to cite and collect than help these days.

You guys that have done little group bulldozer pushes on mining claims? Any gold get sold? Did you all have MSHA training and appropriate safety classes, equipment on hand, documentation, etc.? Yeah, I thought not.

True story, but no, I am not going to spend my time posting relevant documentation. The bottom line is there needs to be a sole proprietorship exemption similar to what exists with OSHA.

[jasong]

The MSHA teacher told me this too. The regulations do not make a distinction between single miners and companies so he said it was not in the regulations itself per say, just that they do not make a distinction thus all regulations apply to both parties equally.

 

The bulletin board and office thing is in the regulations, I have it highlighted since he told me to be aware of it so I already have the source.

 

So, this is a good one, thanks. Any others?

[beardog]

It's all very simple - we all know what is happening to our mining rights - we all know

 

brick by brick we are being driven off the land. This regulation, that regulation, rules, dictates, license, fees, permits, inspections, protected areas, endangered species.......on and on.

 

There will come a time when there are just to many hoops to jump thru -

[deathray]

Go to AMRA home page. Watch the video of forest service agent Clint , trying to shut down dredgers in Idaho...making stuff up on the fly . Shannon Poe schooled him.

[goldbrick]

"Please, no rants, opinion, or anything off the topic." Jasong, you do realize this is a public forum? You may be asking too much?

If I wanted the info you are asking for I would contact The PLP, AMRA, WMA, or Pacific Legal Foundation. Those folks collectively should possess info on enough government abuses (citations included) to keep you busy for a long, long time. I wish you the best of luck on your quest!