Finders Keepers?

[GB_Amateur]

What about the antiquities laws?  (Which one?  Take your pick.)  What about claiming metal detecting finds as income on your tax returns?

With the rare exception that some zealot or enemy makes it his/her vendetta to turn you in (and insist you are prosecuted), the 'authorities' don't really care.   Unless...  there is considerable value involved, meaning (just my WAG) 10's of thousands of dollars or more.  Someone beach hunting on the Florida coast finds a coin from a Spanish galleon?  Yawn.  Someone finds the galleon?  Here come's every Tom, Dick, and Harry (public or private).  When the SS Central America was discovered and treasure recovered, the insurance companies (and their 'descendents') from the mid-1850's all of a sudden came out of the woodwork and claimed the spoils.  (Pretty sure the insurance companies lost in court, but the lawyers for both sides didn't lose.)

There are reasons the world has so many lawyers but I don't think lost rings have much to do with that.  For the most part, individual ethics and conscience are the ultimate decider.  Of course there are always exceptions.  In the USA I don't think it would be the least bit smart to swing a detector inside the borders of a National Park, even if all you're looking for are kac's Zincolns.

[Tom_in_CA]

35 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

What about the antiquities laws?  (Which one?  Take your pick.)  ...

Good post.   "Cultural heritage" issues are always a part of any fed. or state land.   So that, even if some form of federal or state land has no laws that forbid md'ing, yet you're right:  It's going to be with the caveat that:  As long as the items you're finding don't bump into cultural heritage issues.

 

For example:  One time I was detecting a NFS campground in the Sierra Nevadas, that dated back to the CCC days (1930s).  A ranger truck *just happened* to drive past me.  He stopped, rolled down his window, and began to tell me : "You can't metal detect".  But after some casual conversation, he changed his tune and said : "You can detect, but if you find any coins 50 yrs. old or older,  you need to turn them in to the ranger station" (that was 25+ miles away, blah blah).  I replied "Ok".  He left, and I continued detecting.  And ... of course.... I did not find that 1920s walking half that day, nor the wheaties  🙄

 

State parks also invariably have some type of wording for cultural heritage, even when not *specifically* forbidding md'ing.  And not sure about other counties, by my county (Monterey County) does have some boiler plate verbiage for our county parks.   Not sure about city parks in CA.  I highly doubt they go to the trouble.   But if they do, it's simply "cut & paste" from other entities, and I highly doubt they *really* care if someone finds a 51 yr. old coin.

 

In this hobby, it's no longer a matter of "Know and obey all laws".  It's actually a matter of applying the "Does anyone really care ?" test of things.   And "don't swat hornet's nests by asking silly questions" test of things.  Yet, for some reason, some skittish md'rs will "fret themselves silly" as to whether or not a screwdriver constitutes "deface" or "dig", blah blah.   If those persons were alerted to the myriad of things that *could* be construed to apply to their actions (L&F, disturbing earthworms, cultural heritage, alter deface, harvest/remove, etc...) they would immediately drop this hobby, and take up needlepoint.

[GB_Amateur]

8 minutes ago, Tom_in_CA said:

A ranger truck *just happened* to drive past me.  He stopped, rolled down his window, and began to tell me : "You can't metal detect".  But after some casual conversation, he changed his tune and said : "You can detect, but if you find any coins 50 yrs. old or older,  you need to turn them in to the ranger station"

I've seen an argument that USA coins are exempt from these 50 year, 75 year, 100 year or whatever is written in whichever law.  The 'reasoning' is that since any USA minted coin is legal tender still today, the antiquities law can't be used to override that principle.  I have no idea as to the strength of that argument.  Is there a legal precedent where this was applied (and which prevailed) in court?  That would be nice to have on one's side but it might take a fresh court challenge to find out.

[Tom_in_CA]

14 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

I've seen an argument that USA coins are exempt from these 50 year, 75 year, 100 year or whatever is written in whichever law.  The 'reasoning' is that since any USA minted coin is legal tender still today, the antiquities law can't be used to override that principle.  I have no idea as to the strength of that argument.  Is there a legal precedent where this was applied (and which prevailed) in court?  That would be nice to have on one's side but it might take a fresh court challenge to find out.

I have heard the claim that ARPA exempts coins.  But not on the basis that you cite here.  Ie.: that "because it's still legal tender...".   That's a new one that I hadn't heard  before.  Very interesting.

 

The typical notion that "coins and bullets are exempted", is there's verbiage that alludes to something like that.  HOWEVER, I do not think that it follows through (if some archie wanted to make a stink).  Because, in context of where they're pulling that from, the "exempted" coins and bullets are :  Those that are not artifacts .  Or something like that. In other words, the "coins and bullets that are exempted" are going to be :  Those that are less than 50 yrs. old.  Doh !

 

Here's the bottom line in all of this :  NONE OF US wants to get into the debate of semantics, in the first place.   Thus I will simply make sure I'm detecting when there's no prying eyes or busy bodies in the first place.  And ... yes ... I never find old coins.  Do you ?  🤔

[Erik Oostra]

Has there ever been a case of cops or owners monitoring forums such as this to find lost property? If so, were they successful? Could this lead to prosecution for the unfortunate detectorist for not handing it in (or even accusations of theft)? Or perhaps the detectorist was lucky and got a reward for her/his hard work?  

[Tom_in_CA]

28 minutes ago, Erik Oostra said:

Has there ever been a case of cops or owners monitoring forums such as this to find lost property? If so, were they successful? Could this lead to prosecution for the unfortunate detectorist for not handing it in (or even accusations of theft)? Or perhaps the detectorist was lucky and got a reward for her/his hard work?  

This has been mused many many times on many threads on md'ing forums.   The supposed fear that if you post a pix of your bragging rights ring, then:  What's to stop someone from saying "That's mine" ?  After all, they now have a picture to describe, and a general location, and so forth.   Your question is only a slight twist on that, in that you're asking about LEGITIMATE true L&F (where it truly IS the persons who is ID'ing it).

 

Either way, the answer is :  No.  This has not been an issue.   I have never heard of anyone lurking on forums (whether nefariously, or truly looking for their legit. lost ring), and then making a claim.

 

Because if this were a threat, then it's certainly not stacking up to reality.  Because a quick look down any md'ing forum's show & tell sections , and you see NO SHORTAGE of us md'rs posting our show & tell rings.  Right ?   And .... seriously now .... can anyone ever recall any of them that resulted in someone hopping on the forum and saying "That's mine" ?   I can't recall any incidents of this.   If someone can, please let us know.  But in the absence of any cases, I'd say this is an un-founded fear.  So go ahead and post away !   😅

[Erik Oostra]

5 minutes ago, Tom_in_CA said:

So go ahead and post away !   😅

Phew! I've seen the flip side of this at my local metal detecting club, where owners post on the club's facebook page hoping to recover their jewellery.. and sometimes offering huge rewards.. one woman offered a AU$ 1000 reward to find her lost wedding ring, plenty of punters took up the challenge but none ever found it 😬.. In this case the ring had a lot of sentimental value as her husband had passed away.. 

[Tom_in_CA]

11 minutes ago, Erik Oostra said:

Phew! I've seen the flip side of this at my local metal detecting club, where owners post on the club's facebook page hoping to recover their jewellery.. and sometimes offering huge rewards.. one woman offered a AU$ 1000 reward to find her lost wedding ring, plenty of punters took up the challenge but none ever found it 😬.. In this case the ring had a lot of sentimental value as her husband had passed away.. 

 

Yeah, I've seen that , where someone who's lost a ring, wises up to the fact that there's geographic specific FB md'ing pages.  And posting their plea for help.   And most of us md'rs like to put our hobby to use, and don't mind helping.  Posse hunting is fun, so ... no harm there.   But I've never heard of the reverse scenario, where they lurk to see if someone posts show & tell, and them swoop in and say "that's mine".

It's theoretically possible.  But I just have never seen it happen.

 

If anyone knows of a case of this "that's mine" scenario, let us know.  

[rod-pa]

I agree, an exception, but I would give him his coins.  My comment was more the foot down, hasn't been touched since 1800s

[Ridge Runner]

Over the many years I’ve been detecting I’ve returned lots of rings .

 The thing to expect is you may not even get a Thank You when you hand it back to the person who lost it.

 You just remember that you done the right thing. That’s what you have to remember when you turn and walk away because the others are long gone.

 Chuck