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Public Mention Of Multi Iq Gen-2 In Link Below


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Soooo... 5 khz and F2=3 (on the 600) in a bed 'o' nails? I've used 4 khz before with good results but shied away from bumping F2 up, although I did try it a long time ago.

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2 hours ago, F350Platinum said:

Soooo... 5 khz and F2=3 (on the 600) in a bed 'o' nails? I've used 4 khz before with good results but shied away from bumping F2 up, although I did try it a long time ago.

I could be wrong.   Don’t think iron bias setting is option when single freq ops is used.

Cheers

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3 hours ago, F350Platinum said:

Soooo... 5 khz and F2=3 (on the 600) in a bed 'o' nails? I've used 4 khz before with good results but shied away from bumping F2 up, although I did try it a long time ago.

 

46 minutes ago, Tnsharpshooter said:

I could be wrong.   Don’t think iron bias setting is option when single freq ops is used.

Cheers

Yes.  Iron bias only works in multi.

Multi to minimize falsing w/IB.

Single frequency to attempt to unmask a non-ferrous in bed o nails, except you will have to deal with ferrous falsing without IB.

I personally would only use single frequency as an "interrogation" mode to see if I could "bring out" a stronger non-ferrous target response if I was getting an iffy mixed ferrous/non-ferrous target hit in multi with medium or max IB applied.  Note that what could actually be happening if you do that is simply causing more falsing.  You won't know for sure unless you dig it.  You have to draw upon your experience with the site and the specific nature of the target signal to make a dig determination. 

Or you can skip all that, stay in multi, and dig any target that still pops an iffy non-ferrous tone.  You'll still dig less Iron than you would with F2 IB=0.

 

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15 minutes ago, Rick N. MI said:

Why is there iron bias when you have discriminate.

As I said previously, Iron bias prevents falsing, it doesn't silence ferrous like disc.  Iron bias works in conjunction with discrimination to push iffy mixed ferrous targets into the Ferrous Target ID bin (any Target ID at or below the ferrous tone breakpoint which is usually at 0 by default but can also be raised above zero if desired (some modes like Field 1 and Field 2 set the ferrous breakpoint at  2 by default)).  If you don't want to hear those ferrous signals, you use disc to filter out ferrous IDs below the breakpoint frequency.

If you choose to not use IB but use disc (vs. horseshoe), all that means is that you will hear more falsing ferrous in the non-discriminated, non-ferrous target ID regions.

Iron Bias relies on Multi IQ processing that's why it doesn't work in single frequency.

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1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said:

 

Iron Bias relies on Multi IQ processing that's why it doesn't work in single frequency.

For me, it is just the opposite.....Multi IQ processing since it basically ignores the iron part of the return signal, uses whatever iron bias setting is chosen to help identify iron correctly. 

In single frequency Multi IQ processing is not being used so the non-ferrous and ferrous signals are processed equally...I guess.

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20 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

For me, it is just the opposite.....Multi IQ processing since it basically ignores the iron part of the return signal, uses whatever iron bias setting is chosen to help identify iron correctly. 

In single frequency Multi IQ processing is not being used so the non-ferrous and ferrous signals are processed equally...I guess.

Jeff - I get what you are saying.  Either way you look at it Mult IQ and Iron Bias are sort of a package deal.  Multi IQ looks at target response at different frequencies and iron bias (through some sort of signal processing secret sauce magic) tells Multi IQ how to treat the remaining non-ferrous signal component by cheating more to ferrous or non-ferrous. But since ML doesn't describe exactly how Multi IQ works and the difference between FE IB response and F2 IB response is also not described, we are really just guessing. 

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I have read this blurb too many times to count and have spent a lot of time trying to substantiate it so I am not "guessing". I am sure you have read this too from the Chief Technology Physicist for Multi IQ, Dr. Philip Warhrlich. Maybe Minelab marketing doctored up this quote to make it more understandable for non-technical people like me and it is somehow not factual. It seems pretty straight forward to me though..........

Let’s hear more from Philip Wahrlich about the technical details:

“For each frequency the detector transmits and receives there are two signals which can be extracted which we refer to as I and Q. The Q signal is most sensitive to targets, while the I signal is most sensitive to iron content. Traditional single-frequency metal detectors use the Q signal to detect targets, and then use the ratio of the I and Q signals to assess the characteristics of the target and assign a target ID. The problem with this approach is that the I signal is sensitive to the iron content of the soil. The target ID is always perturbed by the response from the soil, and as the signal from the target gets weaker, this perturbation becomes substantial. With some simplification here for brevity, if a detector transmits and receives on more than one frequency, it can ignore the soil sensitive I signals, and instead look at the multiple Q signals it receives in order to determine a target ID. That way, even for weak targets or highly mineralized soils, the target ID is far less perturbed by the response from the soil. This leads to very precise target IDs, both in mineralized soils and for targets at depth.”

 

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Jeff, with all due respect, I am not refuting your statement regarding Multi IQ ignoring the iron component or implying you are just speculating on that aspect.   All I am saying is that we don’t have a definitive and complete picture of how Multi IQ works and what it does.

I am familiar with the blurb above and have read all the Multi IQ Treasure Talk theory articles and other ML technical papers on detecting tech, including those posted here on DP.  What I am saying is that it says nothing about how iron bias works and it doesn't say it always ignores the I signal from the target or doesn’t also calculate an I to Q ratio (even Equinox likely has to calculate this to derive Target ID when in single frequency), it just affirms that Multi IQ takes advantage of Multi F to enable it to cancel/ignore the “soil sensitive” portion of the I signal for more accurate target ID. 

If we look at the Equinox user guide description of iron bias it states:

All ferrous targets produce a combination of ferrous and non-ferrous responses. Large ferrous targets can present an even stronger non-ferrous response. A ferrous target adjacent to a non ferrous target can produce a similar response.

The Iron Bias FE Setting provides some control over the Target ID response. A lower Iron Bias setting will allow the natural response to dominate which means that the target is more likely to be classified as a non-ferrous target. A higher setting will increase the likelihood that the target is classified as iron.”

I can infer (guess?) from the above, perhaps incorrectly, that in Multi, Equinox does detect and maybe utilizes the natural I component from from the target for target ID purposes.

At the end of the day, these are just oversimplified snippets of information used to illustrate one advantageous aspect of multi IQ (Minelab all but says this right in the blurb).  It doesn't give the complete picture.  Hell, we still don't really know the true Multi F transmit spectrum or what else Multi-IQ does to process the signal.  Iron Bias may be manipulating the detected but "cancelled" I portion or calculates an I/Q ratio, who knows what is really going on. 

So I stand by my original statement that despite these somewhat informative yet incomplete snippets of Multi IQ technical information from ML, we are just guessing how Multi IQ and IB works.  The only definitive thing that can be said is that iron bias relies on the detector being in Multi mode to do its thing and that ferrous targets definitely false more in single F.

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