Official Minelab Vanquish Ground Balance Info?

[67GTA]

Does anyone have any official info from Minelab stating that the Vanquish defaults to zero GB like the Equinox? It is stated in the Equinox manual, but is not present in the Vanquish manual. I see a lot of people on Facebook groups telling people that the Vanquish has auto ground balance. I tried to argue that they are referencing auto noise cancel, but can't produce any official sources to back up my claim. I can tell the 540 has no GB because of the lack of a GB button, and pumping the coil gives a high or low tones depending on weather it's over or under ground balanced. I'm trying to find some dummy proof info.

[Chase Goldman]

Each mode has a different fixed GB reference setting.  You can tell this by pumping the coil over the same patch of ground and cycle through the modes.  If it had auto GB the ground noise would eventually disappear while pumping.  It never disappears no matter how long you pump, indicating fixed GB.  Most folks who use disc, never notice the effect as it only manifests with ferrous bin noise.  Documentation - none that I can find.  Not something I reckon ML wants to brings attention to and for good reason.  No need to prove anything to uninformed or unknowlegeble naysayers.  If they can't figure it out with their own eyes and ears, there's no point wasting  time trying to win the argument with them using documentation they probably would have trouble deciphering in the first place.

[67GTA]

You're probably right, but I hate seeing people spread misinformation. If I don't know, I will ask instead of blurting out something. Even if I were to post a link with irrefutable evidence to back it up, it would only get buried in the sea of other BS posts and the OP would probably never see it. Guess that's what I get for trying to participate in Facebook group conversations. I see several posts everyday on FB where new users ask questions and get really stupid answers. Forums like this hold a lifetime of knowledge, but aren't very popular anymore. 

[Jeff McClendon]

Chase looks at it one way and I look at slightly differently. If the Vanquish was a single frequency detector I would totally agree that each mode has a slightly different preset fixed ground balance point. Now, whether that point is like the Equinox 0 (whatever that actually is since the Equinox GB goes down to -9) I don’t know. However, since the Vanquish is Multi IQ and since Minelab’s own very rudimentary explanation of Multi IQ as employed on the Equinox clearly states that there is a form of ground balancing (compensation might be a better word) happening in the background no matter what the Equinox is manually ground balanced to, which may or may not be very minor automatic adjustments…….???? The Vanquish also has some form of saltwater beach ground balancing capability built into the background beyond it just being SMF, which actually has a marketing name=Beach Advantage…….so who knows. I would not call whatever it is Auto Ground Balancing, but I also would not call whatever it is a static, fixed ground balance point for each different mode which never changes like one would find on a single frequency detector. Regardless, whatever is or isn’t happening in the background is not enough to compensate for the highly mineralized ground in my area or where Chase uses his if we try to hunt with the entire iron range of target IDs accepted.

[67GTA]

I just assumed it was zero with every mode like the Nox, and the recovery speed slightly affected the amount of mineralization heard (mostly iron tones at -9 & -8). Guess we will never know for sure. I just wasn't going to try and have a conversation with this depth of ideas on a Facebook post!

[Chase Goldman]

You can even switch multifrequency modes over the same patch of ground and the different multfrequency modes will return different ground phase numbers when balanced.

The following is an excellent explanation by Monte on the GB Glitch and how to deal with it.  As he explains, the glitch manfests differently depending on the mode selected based on the different GB reference setting in each mode.

"What I Wish They Would Have Done .. or  ... Would Do:  Eliminate the 'All Metal accept' Horseshow Button.  It is very easy to select one of the three factory default modes, Park, Relic or Jewelry (our USA spelling) and quickly make the changes we want to Accept the number of lower-range Disc. segment ... even to accept All of them to potentially accept all Ferrous and Non-Ferrous targets.  We can also make that setting decision in the preferred default mode and SAVE that setting and performance in the Custom mode.

Then, use that button as a Ground Grab feature to bob the coil and use an automated Ground Balance function.  That would take care of the ground environment we are hunting, and  .. if done right ... would eliminate any circuitry designed default in software..  That means, if done right, it would eliminate the design 'glitch' is has.  And my 2nd Vanquish 50 has the exact same performance and design glitch as the one I want Minelab to return (fixed, if possible).

Okay, so you're wondering, "What is the 'glitch?'

Here it is:  It relates to a default Ground Balance for the different modes as the Vanquish has a 'fixed' GB.  Either an internal trimmer or more likely handled in software, but ...

In the Coin and Jewelry modes, if you active the Horseshoe button to Accept all Disc. segments, then bob the search coil up-and-down from 6" to about 1", especially in a more mineralized environment, you will notice a 'Beep' on the DOWNSTROKE of the coil towards the ground.  This is an indication of a Too-Positive Ground Balance behavior.

But if you select the Relic mode, active the Horseshoe button and bob the search coil, you will notice a 'Beep' on the UPLIFT of the coil as you pull it away from the ground.  A behavior related to a Too-Negative GB behavior.

If you activate the Horseshoe button in any mode and search over ground that is especially very mineralized; or search over dirt and rocks; or hunt an area where the coil is being lifted or lowered to go over weeds, sticks, clumps of anything, or covering uneven ground, especially if it is lumpy, uneven or has holes or furrows,  you are going to hear a lot of Low-Tone audio 'Beeps' caused by the imbalance.  If in Coin or Jewelry it will 'Beep' as you sweep over the top f a furrow or over a bump or hump of ground, and if in Relic it will do the opposite and 'Bee' when you sweep over a hole, depression or a furrow, etc.

You will think that a site is terribly littered with Low-Tone responding ferrous trash ... such as a "carpet of nails" ... when there might be none or only a few pieces of ferrous debris present.   Step out in a yard or a rock bead, or use some black asphalt that is often rather 'mineralized', and bob th coil with the Horseshoe button On and then Off.  You will notice the design glitch.  I discovered the differences in each mode in the first 10-15 minutes of checking out the V-540.

How I Deal With It: Simple.  I just do NOT use the Horseshoe button.  On my in-for-service Vanquish I used the Relic mode because that is the slower-sweep and deeper-detecting mode for more open areas with sparse targets.  I then  Accept ALL Disc. segments except the first two.  Then I hunt almost anywhere without the audible 'glitch' falsing all the time.  I like to hear Iron targets, or most of them, and it has been working well when I have re-hunted the places where I was very annoyed from the audio caused by the default glitchy behavior.  That is the unit that will keep the 9X12 DD mounted to best handle the more open / sparse-target areas.

On my 2nd V-540, I will keep the 5X8 DD mounted to better handle the trashier places with more targets encountered.  For that I will use the default Jewelry mode because it seems to have more of a blend of quick-response and recovery of the Coin mode but just a little bit of behavior of the Relic mode.  Again, I will Accept ALL of the Disc. segments except the first two.

Note that when you use a factory designed mode and then SAVE the Disc. settings, it also saves the  rest of the mode functions.  You can also tell that by checking the ground falsing behavior using the Horseshoe button.  Out of the box my Vanquish models had a 'positive' behavior like the Coin and Relic mode.  When I used the Relic mode and selected the more open Disc. pattern and Saved it, Custom then demonstrated the Negative GB behavior of the Relic mode.

One final comment.  I have had three friend check their Equinox 800's using the Multi-IQ and with the 'default' ')' GB and activate the Horseshoe function and they also had similar misbehavior.   THEN, they did either an Automated GB or a Manual GB and ... the falsing glitch was gone.  One reason I won't use a '0' GB setting.  Always GB the Equinox.  Sadly, we can't with a Vanquish.

Sorry to ramble.  If my post is too lengthy or annoying, let me know and I'll try not to in the future, and tell Steve H. and he can scold me.

Monte"

The above is from the following post: https://www.detectorprospector.com/forums/topic/11941-4-ghost-town-hunts-with-the-vanquish-540/?do=findComment&comment=117862

 

 

[Jeff McClendon]

Let me put it this way.  When I take my Nox 800 out to my backyard which makes many single frequency detectors overload due to high iron mineralization, choose default Beach 1, leave the ground balance on 0 and press the horseshoe button to accept all targets, I get ground noise registering as -9 when the coil approaches the ground, as I swing it and at the end of each swing. If I choose default Beach 2 and do the same thing I get -9 responses from the ground and ground noise when the coil is moving away from the ground and at the end of each swing. 

So, if the Vanquish is using a form of Equinox Beach 1 and/or Beach 2…….this starts to make some sense. All four modes, Park 1, Park 2, Field 1 and Field 2 react to the ground similar to Beach 2 with GB set on 0 with the horseshoe button pressed and with default settings.

[Chase Goldman]

20 minutes ago, 67GTA said:

I just wasn't going to try and have a conversation with this depth of ideas on a Facebook post!

Bingo - not worth the trip.

[Jeff McClendon]

Chase, most of Monte’s post shows up a gibberish on my IPad. It is a great post.

[Chase Goldman]

Just now, Jeff McClendon said:

Chase, most of Monte’s post shows up a gibberish on my IPad. It is a great post.

Fixed it.  I was trying to bring over the text using html to get "Quote" box, but I messed it up so I just copied the text directly for readability.