Announcing The New Makro Racer 2!

[Steve Herschbach]

 

[Roughwater]

Wow the small coil in the garden!

 I think it was AUminesweeper (John) that sent me some equations to figure the anticipated depth ability of a coil but without doing the math I am pretty sure this little coil on the the Racer2 just blew that equation all to hell.  No offence to you John, I know your equation is correct (normally) but this machine and coil isn't normal.  

Terry

[auminesweeper]

3 hours ago, Roughwater said:

Wow the small coil in the garden!

 I think it was AUminesweeper (John) that sent me some equations to figure the anticipated depth ability of a coil but without doing the math I am pretty sure this little coil on the the Racer2 just blew that equation all to hell.  No offence to you John, I know your equation is correct (normally) but this machine and coil isn't normal.  

Terry

The Equations I posted are Average Depths, In Theory a Concentric should achieve about Twice its width in depth, what you are seeing there is not the Norm, Testing soils from dark black loam to sandy loam with a chalk base layer the average is 1 and a 1/3rd time the size of the coil and anything after that is a Bonus, In some places it can be reversed where a person would be lucky to see anything deeper than 4 or 5 inches

With coils there is No guaranteed depth, the guy in the Video could walk 20 feet to the left or right and not Get a thing past 7 inches and the figures I quoted are only a Guide,

In my soils the deep equates to about 1.2 to 1.3 times the size of the coil and the deepest coin has been 13 and a half inches bordering on 14 inches using a 12 coil. Where you live it could be a lot deeper or less than half that using the C&J mode, Where things change is when I use all metal because then the depth really goes deep and then I also have a third Tone to use, The figures I Quoted are Safe Minimums of coarse I could quote deeper figures and Prove It, But If I quoted that you should hit coins at 24 inches with a 12inch coil and you find that you can only get them at 10 or 11 inches then I would be also be wrong,

In that link Steve posted you will see what Dave J says about coil depth and what can be expected, Your results will be different than those shown in this video and different to mine, This is another reason why I have done so much testing and to find out what works for you then you must do your own testing which relates to the Ground where you are going to use what ever coil /detector combination. It's the Laws of Physics (Geology) that makes the Rules not Me and not the Detector Companies.

John 

[Roughwater]

 

4 hours ago, auminesweeper said:

In that link Steve posted you will see what Dave J says about coil depth and what can be expected, Your results will be different than those shown in this video and different to mine, This is another reason why I have done so much testing and to find out what works for you then you must do your own testing which relates to the Ground where you are going to use what ever coil /detector combination. It's the Laws of Physics (Geology) that makes the Rules not Me and not the Detector Companies.

John 

 

Sounds like you definitely know your stuff john.  As to my soil here in this part of NC I haven't really tested it yet but It is Red and I am pretty sure somewhat  mineralized.  Back in Ohio, the soil was black, rich and easy to dig in. It seemed like when it was wet I got the best depth.  Not so much here. Not great garden soil here, still,they manage to farm it. 

As to coils, I suppose they could maybe make a hybrid coil, say a concentric DD?  I don't know that they can just wondering?

[auminesweeper]

They have already made a hybrid coil which is now fitted on the GPZ 7000, I think it was Reg Sniff who made it back a few years ago.

The Racer 2 seems like a very Hot VLF and it is jam packed with useable features and it is not over loaded with stuff you pay for and never use, And the only thing that I would ask for is a Matt Screen just to cut down reflections, As far as my thoughts go, they are a company that can do No Wrong.

John  

[Steve Herschbach]

Ultra Anti-Glare (Matte) Clear Screen Protector Film cut to fit, enough to do many detectors (I am only on second sheet) Has worked great on GPZ, CTX, Nokta and Makro detectors, etc.

Digging along the Spanish Trail in California....

 

[auminesweeper]

Geez I like that Screen, It's all there, Nice Video, he seems to have found a great little hot spot.

At the moment I find it a little strange seeing no minus numbers for Iron having been use to seeing -95 to +95 but it looks like the transition is fairly straight forward,

Thanks for posting it Steve.

john 

[Steve Herschbach]

Racer 2 is slaying the silver at http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,105677

same post but different forum Link deleted since Findmall Forum update broke all old links

Notes on tone break settings http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,105640

[Steve Herschbach]

Interesting post by Tom at http://www.dankowskidetectors.com/discussions/read.php?2,105766 comparing the Racer 2 to the Teknetics T2 Classic.

Interesting to me in particular as it confirmed something I had observed myself. The original Racer model has ferrous target numbers running from 0 - 40 and 40 to 99 non-ferrous. This compressed nonferrous responses into a 60 point range.

People complained about that and so the Racer 2 set 0 - 10 as ferrous and 10 - 99 non-ferrous, in theory spreading non-ferrous out to a 90 point range. Better for coin hunters, where the original Racer is geared more towards relic hunters. Or more to the point people that just dig all non-ferrous, the expanded ferrous range being an aid to that end.

The key is no detector can have a true 100% dividing line between ferrous and non-ferrous. It is an overlapping range. Putting the line at 40 allows the detector more adjustment up or down to let the operator decide for themselves where they want the exact line drawn, and you get more resolution putting the ferrous break at 40. Same reason it is at 40 on the T2.

The Racer 2 has a much more limited ferrous adjustment range, and in bad ground I find the overlap runs down to about 3 or 4 on the scale. That means that is you want to hit smaller non-ferrous on the Racer 2 you need to lower the default ID Filter (disc) setting to 3 or 4 and move the tone break down to match. The exact setting depends on the ground mineralization and nature of the ferrous targets one wishes to discriminate against.

A huge difference between the First Texas machines and the Turkish units is the FT machines use a gated audio response. The circuit looks at a target, decides if it is ferrous or non-ferrous, then delivers a response that is 100% one way or the other. It gives you a warm fuzzy it is so sure of itself and easier to process mentally. The Nokta and Makro units have a free flowing audio system that reports in near real time. The problem there is most targets, especially in bad ground, are not pure ferrous or pure nonferrous responses, but in reality a mix of the two. Anyone familiar with the Minelab Explorer, E-Trac, or CTX know that all targets give both a ferrous number and a conductive number. This creates an X and Y scale on the screen which is reported visually by correlating the two responses.

Nokta and Makro machines report that same mix via audio, and so a non-ferrous item can deliver a mixed audio response that can make using the machines more challenging but which also conveys more information to those that can get in the groove with it, so to speak. There are benefits to both systems but at the end of the day I think it is just a "what works best for you" type of thing.

The main take away here anyway for anyone interested is that if you use any of these machines and leave the ID Filter or Discrimination setting at default settings they can call non-ferrous items as ferrous and in cases where you also can adjust the tone break this may also need to be set lower. My main problem with my F75 was that it is a T2 variant and with an expanded non-ferrous range, just like the Racer 2. It also called borderline non-ferrous targets as ferrous but since the tone break could not be adjusted you had to go to mono tone and low disc to capture borderline non-ferrous. I am not sure about the T2 but on the F75 simply engaging two tone mode also engaged a factory preset on the tone break that cannot be overridden and which will automatically have borderline non-ferrous items identified as low tone ferrous. The T2 is not immune to this overlap issue and may also require mono tone and disc settings below 40 to capture borderline targets.

And in the case of the Racer 2 for nugget detecting or other chasing of the ragged edge non-ferrous, I would recommend people experiment with lowering both the ID Filter and tone break to either 3 or 4 depending on the circumstances.

[auminesweeper]

Because of 99% of Iron is just junk I would rather see the Non ferrous targets start at 0 +/- and all ferrous objects be below that line and shown as a - VDI reading, it makes no sense to put Iron above Zero, This is another reason I don't use other machines.

On the Sovereign GT I had the 170/180 meter and most coins came in between 126 and 170 and 8 out of 10 coins came in between 158 to 170, and the 4 tone ID was less than Ideal,

Now I only use 2 Tone ID or with Iron Blanking, either dig or no dig with the Iron showing up as negative numbers, I think it was FT who came out with the 0 to 99 system I had an F4 and the fact that Iron above zero seemed crazy, A bit like C & F Temp system, when you consider that we are about 85% water and water freezes at 0*c it makes more sense to use that system where as at 0*F we would be long past dead,, Alcohol freezes at 0*F most of us are not made up of alcohol,

I just think that these machines should be setup in the same way.

john