New Nokta Makro Simultaneous Multi Frequency And Endless Possibilities For The Future

[bigtim1973]

On 9/3/2021 at 6:15 PM, Jeff McClendon said:

The lack of ingenuity by FTP in regards to the CZ line of SMF detectors is stunning. Many on this forum have been begging FTP to do something.....anything to the CZs. They have managed to clone, rebadge, redesign the control box housing somewhat and add some features to most of their detectors. If they had just done any of that to the CZ 20, CZ 21 or the CZ 3D. The components used to produce those detectors are so old, I don't see how they still can keep making them without some serious board level component upgrades.

And then compare that to the Minelab Sovereign with BBS simultaneous multi frequency from 1991. The Sovs and the CZs look strikingly similar. Minelab definitely did not stand still and stop SMF development with the Sovereign, unlike FTP.

I have been testing another Garrett Ace Apex with the latest updated software for the last two weeks praying that it would be better than the first one I tested......... I sure hope Garrett does not stop there with their SMF technology.............. I am still singularly unimpressed with the Apex. I guess I have been spoiled by Minelab's SMF technologies.  I hope Nokta Makro really nails it with their SMF technology.

Amen to that one brother!!

I got to admit I have been looking at some older minelabs recently. I had several sovereigns myself and took them for granted due to the lack of displays and recovery speed. 

So I went with other machines and look back now at how advanced those really were.

So maybe there was some engineering at Los Banos that didn't get to FT when the bought fisher. I thought it was Dave Johnson who came up with the CZ wasn't he? 

He played a part in the DFX as well if i am correct. So.....it too can run select 3 or 15khz or both. 

So is Dave not at FT or retired now?

[Jeff McClendon]

I can’t answer some of those questions……..Maybe someone with inside FTP information will.

I never used the Sovereign……or a CZ.  I really like the DFX even though it has plenty of shortcomings in higher iron mineralization. One of my hunting buddies still does really well with his using a Bigfoot coil for shallow recent drops. If the price and condition were right I would buy another one. Rather have it than the SMF detector I am testing right now.

[palzynski]

7 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

...

I have been testing another Garrett Ace Apex with the latest updated software for the last two weeks praying that it would be better than the first one I tested......... I sure hope Garrett does not stop there with their SMF technology.............. I am still singularly unimpressed with the Apex. I guess I have been spoiled by Minelab's SMF technologies.  I hope Nokta Makro really nails it with their SMF technology.

I have also done more testing with the Apex the last weeks as the fields are plowed over here. I will provide more details in a post in the Garrett forum but I could compare it with a Deus HF and a Vanquish 540 . Up to now I have been detecting around 30 hours with the Apex . It is a good machine , not as good as a Deus and a little unstable in the irons , but faster and more reactive than a Vanquish , at least in my European conditions ( mild soil , high iron trash ). It is also lighter than a Vanquish. 

The most annoying for me with the Apex is some lack of reliability . I had to send a bad Viper coil to the Garrett after service - I know I am not the only one - and sometimes I have to disconnect/reconnect the coil connector due to erratic signals. I hope that Garrett will definitely solve these issues .

On 8/29/2021 at 5:39 PM, ☠ Cipher said:

... even recently from NM we’ve heard that SMF is not always the best solution
...

I agree with that , SMF is not necessarily the best solution , at least in my European conditions  . During my last comparative tests between a Deus , an Apex and a Vanquish 540 in a plowed field , ultra high iron trash , the Deus was the best machine   , then the Apex silver medal , and the Vanquish bronze medal. I will add more details in an other post of the MD ADVICE and COMPARISONS forum.

[Jeff McClendon]

38 minutes ago, palzynski said:

I have also done more testing with the Apex the last weeks as the fields are plowed over here. I will provide more details in a post in the Garrett forum but I could compare it with a Deus HF and a Vanquish 540 . Up to now I have been detecting around 30 hours with the Apex . It is a good machine , not as good as a Deus , but faster and more reactive than a Vanquish , at least in my European conditions ( mild soil , high iron trash ). It is also lighter than a Vanquish. 

The most annoying for me with the Apex is some lack of reliability . I had to send a bad Viper coil to the Garrett after service - I know I am not the only one - and sometimes I have to disconnect/reconnect the coil connector due to erratic signals. I hope that Garrett will definitely solve these issues .

I agree with that , SMF is not necessarily the best solution , at least in my European conditions  . During my last comparative tests between a Deus , an Apex and a Vanquish 540 in a plowed field , ultra high iron trash , the Deus was the best machine   , then the Apex silver medal , and the Vanquish bronze medal. I will add more details in an other post of the MD ADVICE and COMPARISONS forum.

So far both of the Apex I have tested have been reliable, comfortable to swing and enjoyable to use. I have no complaints about build quality at all. My main complaints are lack of target ID accuracy on any targets which aren’t shallow,, lack of overall depth and fairly slow recovery speed which results in target masking. All of those complaints just reinforce the fact that the Apex is an entry level detector that happens to have SMF. I believe it would be an excellent saltwater beach detector and a solid choice for a USA made entry level detector. I could get by with it in a bed of nails and for areas where good targets are not very deep. Non-ferrous targets are being completely masked sometimes in my testing. It scored a 7 with an Indian head penny in position 1 and a 5 with the same IHP in position 2 using Monte’s ’Nail Board test so total score was 12. My Simplex scored 14 and my Deus scored 15 with 16 being a perfect score.

 I believe that SMF is great technology. However some SMFs like the Vanquish and most of the earlier Minelab and Whites have very good target ID at the expense of speed and they are not good in dense iron trash. 

[☠ Cipher]

4 hours ago, palzynski said:

I agree with that , SMF is not necessarily the best solution ,

I would agree with that too if we were to add the important caveat “not always.” My only point is it seems not a good reason not to also have a multifrequency option. I would hold the equinox up as a better example than vanquish for reactivity, and as an example of how you can have your cake and eat it too, but I think if reactivity is the most important factor for you, Deus is still the gold standard. This seems to also be true even when we are talking about dedicated single frequency units. But then, equinox out paces most of them too, which shows that you can walk and chew gum at the same time. I’m not convinced that an all in one like equinox couldn’t be created that could do as well as Deus in a single frequency mode. Maybe Nokta Makro will pull an upset and be the ones to do it first. It’s pretty close even now. We are talking almost splitting hairs at this stage, so I think it can be done, and I think you can have it all as things evolve. 

[Chase Goldman]

44 minutes ago, ☠ Cipher said:

I would hold the equinox up as a better example than vanquish for reactivity, and as an example of how you can have your cake and eat it too, but I think if reactivity is the most important factor for you, Deus is still the gold standard.

Agree.

[JCR]

On the Anfibio Multi, 3DI at >90 Gain is fast reacting to the point of clipping the audio. I'm not sure how this compares to the Deus or Equinox but NM can do fast. 99DI is almost continuous in it's reporting of targets. The new SMF surely will build on some aspects that are already proven on past models. Now if they can just get the Gen D mode woken up like it should be, and with some decent target ID depth!

[Cal_Cobra]

On 7/1/2021 at 4:33 PM, Chase Goldman said:

In fact, everything from NM since Impact has been evolutionary not revolutionary.  Decent machines, but are they taking a bite out of ML and its Equinox juggernaut? (Answer: not really). 

 

All great analytical dot connecting BUT perhaps one oversight if I may.   At this stage of the game they don't have to be better then ML, just FTP and Garrett.  The bar's not high at this point IMHO.  

Now if they're going for the juggler with a stretch goal to take out the Equinox, which has been alluded to, great, but the battle's already won if they release a better SMF then FTP and Garrett have in their lineup IMHO.  If their SMF is as good as or better then the Equinox, then it's game on and it will be very interesting to see Minelab scramble to release an Equinox Pro with more features and capabilities then their Nokta competitive counterpart. 

This will certainly be interesting!

[Cal_Cobra]

On 7/8/2021 at 6:09 AM, Jacza said:

I don't expect too much from this multifrequency machine. With the Kruzer and Anfibio series (I own a Multi Kruzer) NM has even not managed to implement a simple noise filter, so 3 tone mode with 14 kHz is working good, but all other modes suffer from chattering (also 5 and 19 kHz) on normal conditions. It's so bad that you won't use these modes in the long run. And in 3 tone you can only work above gain 90 because below there is an hidden "ultra fast" mode which has less depth.

If you look to the Racer series, the Impact, the Kruzer, Anfibio and Simplex, it looks like they wrap up the same technology and sell it again and again as a new machine but in the core it's always the same without real improvement. I was so shocked when one year after I buyed the Multi Kruzer the similar Anfibio with some more features came out. Until today I don't understand it, because the Kruzer has an online update feature (which was highly promoted) and I have not seen a new update for a long time. In other words it's one of these useless features you pay for, but from which you have expected more. I don't want to complain, the Multi Kruzer has a good choice of coils and makes good finds, but only this one 3 tone mode (with gain above 90) is really usable and maybe I would have also been happy with an only 14 kHz Racer.

I have been a NM consumer since the Red Racer and that machine made a huge impression on me.  Prior to that I was a hard core F75 user, and found that frequently my hunting friend would out do the F75 relic hunting with his Exp2.  That changed when i started using the NM machines, hunted out sites were productive again, and I could keep up or surpass the Exp2 at relic sites 🙂  That said, although I get the gist of what you're saying as far as new machines from NM, I would disagree that "they wrap up the same technology and sell it again and again as a new machine but in the core it's always the same without real improvement. "    No none of them went significantly deeper, they hit the same debth wall everyone else has reached in the VLF arena, BUT each successive model had refinements and enhancements, and in my experience that equated to more finds.   The MMK is sparky in 4-tone mode, but 4-tone @19kHz is my go to mode.  I can hunt through the noise, which in my experience is generally not bad, and I've used it in the city before with good success.  The 3-Tone mode is brilliant, yes you get less depth with their hyper-speed mode, but it's really for hunting in sea of nail iron environments where unmasking is more important then depth, but it also works great at EMI infested sites.  I had a particular intercity demo in a historic area with EMI so bad it was unhuntable in 4-Tone, but 3-Tone @ 89 sens worked perfectly and finds were made.

All said, I actually have high hopes on the NM SSF detector, I suspect it'll exceed expectations and push ML to make their EQX-Pro even more competitive.  We shall see.

[Cal_Cobra]

On 9/4/2021 at 1:14 AM, Jeff McClendon said:

It [Apex ] scored a 7 with an Indian head penny in position 1 and a 5 with the same IHP in position 2 using Monte’s ’Nail Board test so total score was 12. My Simplex scored 14 and my Deus scored 15 with 16 being a perfect score.

Impressive that the Simplex is scored almost as well as the Deus 👍  These are the kind of findings which place such high expectations on their new SMF machine.  They'll figure it out.