Nox Continues To Sniff Out Oldies From Heavily Hunted Parks

[Joe D.]

Outta likes again guys, 

   But great info, and advice! These are my favorite types of posts! No egos, just great information from all levels of experience! Thanks again, to all involved!!👍👍

[F350Platinum]

The landowner I have been getting permissions from lately has visited me a couple of times while I was out digging, he is very impressed by the way I dig. So much so that he let me have a go at a much newer house. I'm hoping to parlay that reference into a farmhouse that someone is living in.

Raphis, sorry I missed this one. That's a heckuva haul of swag from a tough place!

[Tom_in_CA]

23 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

I'll let raphis answer this but want to point out that if Equinox is primarily initiating the flagged targets, that is telling you something right there ...

Chase-goldman :  If the flagging were only-going-one-direction, then yes:  Everything you're saying would be true.  Ie.:  If it were the Nox guy asking the etrac guy "do you hear this", then sure:  That's not a fair test.  Because, sure, then the Etrac guy is going to be subconsciously biased to wave over the KNOWN SPOT (duh), and say "yes I hear it".   And "yes I would have known that's potential deep silver".   When, in fact, he is merely going by subconscious bias, to merely inflate any squeek he hears MERELY because it's been pointed out to him.

 

I get it.  But that's not what I was talking about.  That's not what we're talking about here.  We're talking about where/how BOTH machines are showing each other signals, that *each* of them can admit were the classic difficult deepies , for cherry-pick-turf-strategy.

 

In the case I give, with the 2 individuals, the "flagging" is going both ways .  Not the "one-way" that you seem to envision.

[Tom_in_CA]

21 hours ago, Raphis said:

.... Calling someone over to listen to a flagged signal is much different than finding those obscure signals on your own.....

And my answer to you, is the same as to Chase.

 

So to expand, what would you say, to the counter-assertion, by this "certain individual", that the "calling the other guy over ..." *IS* going "both ways" ?   That each of you two *IS* "finding obscure signals, on your-each own, to show each other ?   With an equal #'s of flags ?  Is he full of sh#t ?   🧐

 

And as for the days of whipped vs non-whipped, he asserts that, sure, some days one of you will spank the other .  No doubt.   But he asserts that there are days when the spanking goes the other direction .  And over-time, when all the averages are said and done, that you guys are about equal, in total tallies.   Thus :  Is he full of sh#t with that statistic ?

 

As far as your own personal game-changer statistic, that you have indisputable better tallies JUST COMPARED TO YOUR OWN IN-HOUSE before & after :   We have discussed this before.  And as you recall, I wondered if this was because you were an SE user.  NOT the II.  NOT the etrac.    And IMHO (and many others who came up through the ranks of the Explorer evolution/incarnations), the SE was not the deeper of the bunch.  It suffered criticism, that it afforded less depth than the others in the line-up.     Yes you totally mastered it (your SE tallies were the stuff of legend).  But just saying, to compare an SE to the 800 is, IMHO, not te same as a II or Etrac vs the 800.  

[Tom_in_CA]

17 hours ago, Joe D. said:

.... We have two Counties that ban "digging" anything in "County" owned parks!! ....

Joe D, I got news for you :  It's not just those locations, or those parks, or those entities, that "ban digging" in their parks.  It's EVERY SINGLE PARK (and beach, and forest, and desert, etc...) in the entire USA.   There is not a SINGLE  speck of public land anywhere, where you can not find such prohibitions.  If it doesn't use the exact word "dig" or "digging", it will indeed have some variation of : "Alter", "Deface", "Destroy", "molest", etc....   All of which can be construed to arrive at the same thing.

 

Yet as you can see :  MD'ing goes on everywhere.  Even in-spite of such verbiage.  How can that be ?   Are we all just lawless miscreants ?   No.  Because if you leave no trace of your presence (ie: you cover, stomp, and fluff up), then presto: You have not alterED, nor defacED, nor destroyED anything.  Now have you ?  🤨   And I would do the same with dIg vs dUg.   The only difference is a spelling exercise.  We do not spell the past tense of the word "dig" as "diggED".    But the concept is identical.

 

Will every last busy-body agree with those semantics ?  OF COURSE NOT !  🙄  So you go at lower traffic times and avoid such kill-joys.  Presto, problem solved.  

 

If you try to "fight it" or "get it clarified", then you REALLY WILL get something codified, to address your "pressing issue".  So, like nose-picking :  Sometimes it's better just to opt for more discreet timing. 🤔  Rather than running around seeking everyone's permission and blessings.

[Tom_in_CA]

16 hours ago, Raphis said:

.....  Thank God where I live I don’t have a “can’t dig deeper than 4” rule imposed on me.  ...

 

I had to chuckle at this.  I *have* seen some people , who live some place where some genius park system, invented a permit or rule, where there's some silly arbitrary thing like that.  Eg.:  "No deeper than 4" deep".  Or "digger tool shall not exceed 3" in length", or whatever.

 

And what perplexes me, in cases like that, is :  Does anyone of us really think, even for a minute, that ANYONE is going around, armed with a ruler, measuring the holes that we dig ?   Eg.:  to see if we dug 5" rather than 4" deep ?   Really ?  I mean, seriously ?  Of course not.   This is much ado about nothing.   I would not hesitate to go the extra inch deeper, if my pinpointer is screaming "silver" at the bottom of a 4" hole.   And no, I do not think there is a man with dark sunglasses in a trenchcoat, hiding behind the tree, waiting to jump out and measure the depth of any hole I'm on.  

[Raphis]

6 hours ago, F350Platinum said:

The landowner I have been getting permissions from lately has visited me a couple of times while I was out digging, he is very impressed by the way I dig. So much so that he let me have a go at a much newer house. I'm hoping to parlay that reference into a farmhouse that someone is living in.

Raphis, sorry I missed this one. That's a heckuva haul of swag from a tough place!

Thanks for your reply, F350Platinum!  So true about how digging/plugging properly/meticulously can pay off big time with business/property owners and groundskeepers, not to mention the general public at the places we all hunt.  I have witnessed some very bad plugs/digging in the parks I detect in my area over the past decade.  It’s obvious that there will be a % of hobbyists that want to purchase their first machine, yet have absolutely no idea how to properly recover their targets out of the ground.  And many haven’t thought thru the process of digging...they are mesmerized over the treasures they hope to find and have paid little thought to the labor/aspect involved in making the recovery while leaving as small a footprint behind as possible.

[Chase Goldman]

20 hours ago, Tom_in_CA said:

Chase-goldman :  If the flagging were only-going-one-direction, then yes:  Everything you're saying would be true.  Ie.:  If it were the Nox guy asking the etrac guy "do you hear this", then sure:  That's not a fair test.  Because, sure, then the Etrac guy is going to be subconsciously biased to wave over the KNOWN SPOT (duh), and say "yes I hear it".   And "yes I would have known that's potential deep silver".   When, in fact, he is merely going by subconscious bias, to merely inflate any squeek he hears MERELY because it's been pointed out to him.

 

I get it.  But that's not what I was talking about.  That's not what we're talking about here.  We're talking about where/how BOTH machines are showing each other signals, that *each* of them can admit were the classic difficult deepies , for cherry-pick-turf-strategy.

 

In the case I give, with the 2 individuals, the "flagging" is going both ways .  Not the "one-way" that you seem to envision.

Tom, I wasn't envisioning anything.  I said "if".  A key piece of information was missing from your original question which kind of set up a bias depending on one's point of view.  Let me put it more objectively or directly.  Of the flagged targets that both machines could equally call, who flagged the most targets?  Frankly, don't answer that though, because it just perpetuates an an unresolvable debate.   Read on...

Based on the last series of posts, is seems that you are trying to stir the pot with Raphis for some reason.  Raphis never made it a point in his OP to turn this into an eTrac vs. Equinox statement. Why all the third party "certain individual" hearsay stuff? Why doesn't Mr. Mystery eTrac guy join the forum and give his side of the story?   

Frankly, it just feels like you have some axe to grind with Raphis.  From what I gather, it is because he is only singing the praises of the Equinox as compared to his Explorer vs. what you apparent,y consider a more capable Equinox predecessor and rival, the eTrac.  And/or you have something against the Raphis/Equinox that goes beyond the typical detectorist friendly rivalry chop busting.  Whatever the case may be, nothing will be resolved with this approach.  Attempting to split hairs on really subjective and highly variable conditions and situations will lead to no solid conclusions and continuous circular sniping, which i fear, can lead to the downward spiral of bad vibes I have seen detrimentally pervade other forums.

If the Equinox is the be all and end all detector that Raphis believes gives him the best chance to rack up his deep silver finds, why begrudge him that, Tom?

Counting silvers and golds is all well and good, but it is not how I approach detecting, quite frankly.  I prefer to live in the moment and savor the those rare, really good finds..  Sure, I like to go on a roll where everything just seems to hop out of the ground and into your pouch.   Yes my relic buds constantly bust each other's chops but also keep it real and remind each other that "its not a contest" when one of us starts to get swelled head about fleeting good luck streaks or an over the top find.  We are all of similar skills and experience with similar detecting equipment, but know for sure that after you are at the site, success really comes down to simply getting your coil over the target. 

Other than tracking how the number of quality finds varies over the years to ID historic trends or to ascertain relevant site-specific detecting info about the the expected age/era of a site,  turning detecting into a "most silvers per day" contest situation, or a "how quickly I can pay for my detector" proposition, or a perpetual, serious Equinox vs. eTrac best detector argument just runs counter to how I derive my personal enjoyment out of the hobby.  That all sounds like work/stress to me and is the opposite of what draws me to the hobby in the first place.  I like to relax and do get excited about significant individual finds, but it's more about quality than quantity.  Hey, yeah I'm guilty of the occasional high minie ball count posting and I do occasionally test my detect and recovery skills at timed group contest hunts, but even those I don't take that seriously and look at it more as a social event to hang out with like minded detecting buddies.  But hey, that's just me.  Perhaps my attitude stems from the fact that I am resigned to the fact that I can never achieve the 10 gold coin summit or 10,000 silver club like you CA guys.  

Anyway, Tom, lets discuss something we can both agree on, the snake oil that are LRL's 

[Joe D.]

Tom,

   IMO, Certain points you made are correct! But others are a little exaggerated, and can cause anyone not aware, a lot of grief!

   I will not try and convince you out of what you believe to be true! Out of respect for your opinions, and Steve's Rules! 

    To me, it all comes down to the laws and ordinances as they stand; hated by us or not!! That's what we have to work with! And Risk vs. Reward, by trying (or not) to get those laws and ordinances changed, or ignoring them outright!

   In my area, I am not willing to fight the system for a bunch of clad, and trash in my County Parks! They can keep it!! I have plenty of City, and other County areas (mostly beaches, waterways, and a few permissions) that will produce the same, and oftentimes, better results, than 10-40 year old County Parks! And are out of their jurisdiction!! And if ever challenged in those areas, I ultimately have the law on my side, and my lawyers card in my pocket!

    I will stop there, for the rest of my thoughts could be considered political, and will never be solved, or tolerated here in our "Happy Place"!!😁👍👍

   

 

 

   

   

[Raphis]

15 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

Frankly, it just feels like you have some axe to grind with Raphis.  From what I gather, it is because he is only singing the praises of the Equinox as compared to his Explorer vs. what you apparent,y consider a more capable Equinox predecessor and rival, the eTrac.  And/or you have something against the Raphis/Equinox that goes beyond the typical detectorist friendly rivalry chop busting.

It’s because Tom can’t forget one hunt nearly 15 years ago where 30+ treasure hunters gathered for a winner take all, old coin deepie hunt at  Big Rec Field (Golden Gate Park) in San Francisco (May, 2007).  Many of the best left coast old coin hunters were out in that field (including Tom and myself).  I took first place in points for my assortment of old coin digs that day in the field.  The machine I was using?  My brand new (a little over a year old) Explorer SE with orange Coiltek Platypus Elliptical coil. 🤣. Maybe Tom just never forgot that day when a newbie Minelab hunter from So Cal captured 1st prize at a field that had been hunted hard by the Nor Cal locals for years.  I can’t think of any other reasons Tom holds a grudge....but his reale, gold coin, and Phoenix button tallies, not to mention his dripping old relics, way above average historical research, and communicative/ argumentative skill sets will always crown him “Stud Muffin” man in our hobby forever!! 😂

 
Tom, however, did redeem himself later that day after the competition hunt at another nearby SF park with a pocket spill of super oldies.   👍🏼🤗