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X-coils For The GPX 6000 - Information Repository


phrunt

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"stumble across something clever". Nice subtle little put down. 

When Minelab come up with something new it is due to massive R&D, huge investment, hard work, and long hours of testing, but the after market 'guys' just 'stumble across' new development. Yeah, right!

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All aftermarket coil manufacturers have done a lot to either improve the performance or add extra versatility through coil size to every detector they've been able to make coils for and many people tend to use aftermarket coils on their detectors if they're available which I guess reflects that they do a pretty good job of bringing something to detectors that the actual detector manufacturers don't. 

Sometimes it might be a placebo, often not.  Sometimes it might be for a specialist task where they excel like the Coiltek AI coils I think are fantastic at what they're designed for.   I would be lost without the little 8" X-coil and Concentric coils for my GPZ too, love those coils.

I've been happy with most of the aftermarket coils I've tried from various brands on various detectors, very few have let me down and sure sometimes it might be I'm not using it for the right purpose where it excels causing my disappointment or just my ability, and I think that's the case with the Z-search, in hot soils it likely adds more than it does in my milder soils as to me it's very similar to the standard coil in performance only lighter.  I'm sure it's a good coil in the right environment and the weight benefits it brings are always welcome, plenty of people like it.

Anyway, starting to sway a bit off topic, I hopefully will have more videos of the GPX 6000 X-coils to put up soon for those interested.  I'll most likely get a 6000 at some point in the near future after waiting out to see if the EMI/speaker thing gets resolved so would be running this 10x6" as my primary coil for it when I do.  I like the look of the 8" round X-coil too but I think all I'd need is the 15x10" and 10x6" along with the standard 11"  to have the perfect setup for me.   I'm in no rush as I love my GPZ.

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23 hours ago, Reg Wilson said:

"stumble across something clever". Nice subtle little put down. 

When Minelab come up with something new it is due to massive R&D, huge investment, hard work, and long hours of testing, but the after market 'guys' just 'stumble across' new development. Yeah, right!

Hey Reg nice to see you posting here again. It wasn’t meant as a subtle put down at all, anyone who has anything to do with R&D knows that you sometimes stumble across something clever, how you choose to read my post is down to you. 🧐 

I have to smile at all the coil discussions though, that includes my own involvement at times because the subject is so emotive. At the end of the day people need to realise it is the brains behind the coil that is actually doing all the work, I am yet to see an aftermarket guy manage to innovate or even stumble onto anything even remotely approaching what has been done with any of the ML electronics we have all used so successfully over the years.

If they are so clever why in heavens name haven’t they put their cleverness into developing a better detector? 🤔 It is for this reason I defend ML so vehemently, I know the effort that goes into a detector build, so to have someone suggest or insinuate that they don’t know what they are doing is perplexing to me. I do understand and appreciate peoples frustration with the limitations of coil choice however.

Now if it was said “it would be great to see more variety of coil shapes and sizes, even if those coils were more specialised so would then not work everywhere” then anyone espousing that would have to change the subject if they wanted an argument from me, there is no need to imply that ML don’t know what they are doing or all the other negative put downs that go with peoples frustrations to achieve their perfect coil-size dream.  

Ever since I started detecting I’ve tried to source more options with coils, and still do to this very day, so from that perspective the subject of this thread is interesting. A GPX 6000 with a coil attached that suits your particular terrain is a desirable thing, circumventing all the pitfalls associated with that process unless the developer has access to the lead tech is going to be an uphill battle which on this thread seems to be the elephant in the room (and also the pathway to discord and argument hence Steves cautionary comments early on). So why does ML even have the chip you ask? Because counterfeiting is an ever present problem so measures to inconvenience counterfeiters is an important part of their right to protect their hard won IP. 

I’ve chatted with one of the Russian developers and he has openly discussed the hurdle that his coils will have to overcome to get any traction in the market place so in essence he is just tinkering and probably having a bit of fun along the way. For people to get in on the act they will eventually have to sacrifice a coil to make up the dongle so that will constrain things a lot. If he honestly thought his coil designs and development were an improvement performance wise over the ML offering he should build an 11” round or 17” elliptical Mono and have it peer reviewed in direct comparison with the standard coils (Steve is a good candidate). From my perspective different sizes and shapes are the way forward for aftermarket manufacturers to satisfy the need and hopefully Coiltek will adequately address this, the GPX6000 has a HUGE amount of detecting power headroom so there is no need to try and reinvent the wheel performance wise.

JP

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I would take a 14DD coil this is just a DD coil and not tied in with the EMI/Salt function. I would sacrifice the stock 14" coil for an X coil like that, or would love to see another after market coil manufacturer do one with Minelab consent. Detech would be my favorite choice, but that would probably never happen.

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Hi JP.

Did you have a chance in the testing stages to use the 6000 without the dongle in place? I was wondering if the dongle being electronic may contribute to the EMI issues people are talking about.

I also looked at a post from Northeast on 27th October who has taken the time to submit a you tube video of testing the 6000 with two types of Low Latency receivers and the supplied headphones. They all seem to work quite well but I did notice during the video a surge of EMI when he turned off the blootooth and the sound was coming from the detector speaker.

Im sorry if this is off topic. If you have a chance to take a look at the video would be fantastic. I have been on the fence for a while looking at the 6000 but I finally cracked and brought one yesterday, cheers sturt

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Hi JP.

Did you have a chance in the testing stages to use the 6000 without the dongle in place? I was wondering if the dongle being electronic may contribute to the EMI issues people are talking about.

I also looked at a post from Northeast on 27th October who has taken the time to submit a you tube video of testing the 6000 with two types of Low Latency receivers and the supplied headphones. They all seem to work quite well but I did notice during the video a surge of EMI when he turned off the blootooth and the sound was coming from the detector speaker.

Im sorry if this is off topic. If you have a chance to take a look at the video would be fantastic. I have been on the fence for a while looking at the 6000 but I finally cracked and brought one yesterday, cheers sturt

I’m not at liberty to discuss some of the testing information but I can assure you the chip in the coil does not interfere with the detector, if this was the case it would be especially troubling for X coils because they now have the chip much closer to the detector. I’d say the EMI in Northeast’s case could be a combination of factors one being having a camera too close to the detector whilst filming (mobile phones are the worst and really set the speaker off), secondly if the detector was laying flat on the ground the cyclic nature of the speaker noise is much much worse when the unit is placed on the ground compared to being hand held in a detecting position (coil in air not on the ground). All detectors will get a good warble up if placed on the ground so I would say in the case of the 6000 it is just exacerbated by the speaker issue. 

I’ve used the 6000 with the speaker for many hundreds of hours quite successfully, usually a quick EMI tune deals with it and you can go on your way. I recommend that if you do more than say 5 noise cancels in a session you should perform a factory reset to bring all the Geo-Sense back to optimal (easily done by long pressing the power button at switch on). This was the best work flow for me till I sorted out a good quality APTX low latency receiver unit from Amazon (I bought a fair few till I got one that was actually Low Latency). 

https://www.amazon.com.au/Avantree-Pre-paired-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Headphones/dp/B00OPVWHRY/ref=asc_df_B00OPVWHRY/?tag=googleshopdsk-22&linkCode=df0&hvadid=341774279437&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3581841827715156339&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9069194&hvtargid=pla-521485039859&psc=1

This one is the best value for money as it is Tx and Rx all in one.

https://www.amazon.com.au/Bluetooth-Transmitter-Gecen-Compatible-Headphones/dp/B07YCFHMXQ/ref=sr_1_224?keywords=APTX+receiver&qid=1636142067&sr=8-224

I then run a cable from the receiver to my booster and amplify out to speakers from there or bud style headphones.

Also an FYI I have had a bit of a play with the PRO-SONIC for the SDC and even though it doesn’t show up on the 6000 with the + sign to show it’s APTX the delay/latency in the audio wasn’t too bad, if you already have one its worth a shot.

JP

 

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JP re

(This one is the best value for money as it is Tx and Rx all in one.

https://www.amazon.com.au/Bluetooth-Transmitter-Gecen-Compatible-Headphones/dp/B07YCFHMXQ/ref=sr_1_224?keywords=APTX+receiver&qid=1636142067&sr=8-224

I then run a cable from the receiver to my booster and amplify out to (Twin speakers in our case on the shoulder)speakers.) 

Does this setup have less/more  EMI than using the 6000 speaker.

Your settings Auto1/Normal/Threshold or Manual gain 10 or.....

Thanks

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JP re

(This one is the best value for money as it is Tx and Rx all in one.

https://www.amazon.com.au/Bluetooth-Transmitter-Gecen-Compatible-Headphones/dp/B07YCFHMXQ/ref=sr_1_224?keywords=APTX+receiver&qid=1636142067&sr=8-224

I then run a cable from the receiver to my booster and amplify out to (Twin speakers in our case on the shoulder)speakers.) 

Does this setup have less/more  EMI than using the 6000 speaker.

Your settings Auto1/Normal/Threshold or Manual gain 10 or.....

Thanks

EMI is probably not the correct term for what happens with the inbuilt speaker, it can get a ‘warble’ up which can be intermittent and non-specific to any external source. When you switch off the speaker by connecting to a bluetooth device or plugging in headphones the ‘warble’ dissipates but any EMI present will remain. The warble can be confusing because it is additive to the whole, so if any cable noise is present, if any EMI is present such as a nearby mobile phone, those noises will be added to the audio along with any ground signal, saturation signal ect.

I have also found there can be some noise generated if the Bluetooth receiver is placed too close to the booster (not sure about the SteelPhase as it is pretty well shielded with that huge aluminium box), I personally use the supplied removable headphone cable and put the BT Rx unit in my right trouser pocket running the cable with an adapter up to my B&Z booster mounted on my right shoulder. This method works best for me and cuts way down on dropped packets because it is in plain line of site of the Pod’s Tx.

Do not be tempted to run too much volume, keep the volume low on the 6000, think of it like looking at a kitchen table surface from standing height, it looks smooth but if you bring your head down to the surface and then put on 3 x magnification glasses you will see lots of little bumps and scratches, this is your threshold and general audio of the detector, the higher you raise the volume the more those nonsensical garbage noises break free of the threshold, if you really listen to the 6000 audio you will notice the threshold is actually quite dominant and very smooth, focus on that and you will find you can run the volumes quite low and still have miles of headroom performance wise. Steve has worked this concept out and its why he can run such insane sensitivity settings.

I personally tend to run my detector as hot as possible, so if using manual Sensitivity I’ll get the unit stabilised (takes about 2 to 3 minutes from switch on till the threshold stabilises and comes smooth and about 30 seconds or so after a noise cancel), once the unit is happy I will then make sure I’m satisfied with the volumes etc then perform a ground balance and then crank the sensitivity to max and slowly back off from there till the unit is just on the edge of ratty (while sweeping the coil about). I will then lift the coil away from the ground holding it flat and listen to the threshold, if its not to my satisfaction I’ll perform another noise cancel and fine tune from there.

Volume has a much bigger impact on a detectors behaviour than most people realise, cranking volume as a form of sensitivity control is a no no, get the volumes correct and then you can crank sensitivity as far as possible, so long as that nonsensical garbage noise just breaking free of the threshold isn’t intruding into your ability to recognise a target signal you’re good to go. 

Off topic a bit people sorry about that. 🤕 

JP

 

 

 

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On 11/6/2021 at 3:59 AM, Jonathan Porter said:

I’m not at liberty to discuss some of the testing information but I can assure you the chip in the coil does not interfere with the detector, if this was the case it would be especially troubling for X coils because they now have the chip much closer to the detector. I’d say the EMI in Northeast’s case could be a combination of factors one being having a camera too close to the detector whilst filming (mobile phones are the worst and really set the speaker off), secondly if the detector was laying flat on the ground the cyclic nature of the speaker noise is much much worse when the unit is placed on the ground compared to being hand held in a detecting position (coil in air not on the ground). All detectors will get a good warble up if placed on the ground so I would say in the case of the 6000 it is just exacerbated by the speaker issue. 

I’ve used the 6000 with the speaker for many hundreds of hours quite successfully, usually a quick EMI tune deals with it and you can go on your way. I recommend that if you do more than say 5 noise cancels in a session you should perform a factory reset to bring all the Geo-Sense back to optimal (easily done by long pressing the power button at switch on). This was the best work flow for me till I sorted out a good quality APTX low latency receiver unit from Amazon (I bought a fair few till I got one that was actually Low Latency). 

https://www.amazon.com.au/Avantree-Pre-paired-Bluetooth-Transmitter-Headphones/dp/B00OPVWHRY/ref=asc_df_B00OPVWHRY/?tag=googleshopdsk-22&linkCode=df0&hvadid=341774279437&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3581841827715156339&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=t&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9069194&hvtargid=pla-521485039859&psc=1

This one is the best value for money as it is Tx and Rx all in one.

https://www.amazon.com.au/Bluetooth-Transmitter-Gecen-Compatible-Headphones/dp/B07YCFHMXQ/ref=sr_1_224?keywords=APTX+receiver&qid=1636142067&sr=8-224

I then run a cable from the receiver to my booster and amplify out to speakers from there or bud style headphones.

Also an FYI I have had a bit of a play with the PRO-SONIC for the SDC and even though it doesn’t show up on the 6000 with the + sign to show it’s APTX the delay/latency in the audio wasn’t too bad, if you already have one its worth a shot.

JP

 

Hi again JP. I ended up going through Amazon Aust for AS70 Avantree unit. The Avantree USA site says nil stock but Australia had 4 units. Paid $10.00 for delivery and the unit arrived last Friday. I tried it on the back lawn and works very well. Didnt notice any latency delays on sound. cheers sturt

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