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The Garrett AT Max And Aluminum Siding


mh9162013

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Today I had a long day of hunting...my longest yet. It started off at a park and ended at a permission of an old home that is at least 120 years old. This post concerns my hunt at the latter location.

I had a little under 2 hours to hunt the old home and just found a few clad coins, some trash bits and A LOT of aluminum siding peices. The aluminum siding pieces were mostly the size of postage stamps and half dollars, although a few were the size of a playing card. These larger pieces were likely targets I left in the ground after using my pinpointer (F-Pulse) and realizing the target was far larger than a coin. I mostly hunted the old house using the following three modes:

One mode was Custom. Sensitivity varied between 2 and 8 bars and I notched out everything that was below 65 or so. This seemed to work ok, except I hit a lot of targets in the 70s, but they were almost always a peice of aluminum siding. Using this mode, I probably dug about 10 holes and found 1 coin, 1 soda can and 8 bits of aluminum siding (this is a rough estimate).

The second mode was also Custom. Sensitvity varied b/w 2 and 8 bars and I notched out everything that was below 80. This was the most enjoyable hunting in that it was quiet and I wasn't digging as much aluminum siding. Using this mode, I probably dug about 6 holes and found 2 coins, 1 soda can and 3 bits of aluminum siding (this is my rough estimate).

The third mode was Zero. Sensitvity varied b/w 2 and 8 bars and I notched out everything that was 35 and below. This was a very annoying mode, given how noisy the AT Max was, but at least I got to hear what my AT Max was "seeing" in the ground. I probably dug about 8 holes in this mode and found 1 coin, 1 soda can and 6 bits of aluminum siding (this is also a rough estimate).

In case you're wondering, the soil was dark with little to no mineralized clay. I don't recall what the AT Max ground balanced at, but maybe in the low 80s, if I recall correctly.

So my question is: what could I have done differently to dig more coins and less aluminum siding? Yes, the aluminum siding sounds a smidge different than coins. And the larger peices don't have the pin-pointy beep that a coin has. But for the smaller bit of aluminum siding, the sound is so close to the sound of a clad or silver coin. As a result, I can't bear to not dig something that sounds that close to a coin.

I hope to go back to that old house and get permission to hunt it a second time. But if I do that, I hope to have a few changes I can make to make my hunting less tiring and less damaging to the owner's yard.

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Not much you can do and notching out variable trash like siding bits, can slaw and foil chunks will certainly reduce your chance of finding something good. The notching is pretty wide on the Garrett machines and do work well with trash that have consistent signals such as square tabs, ring pulls etc. Recently had a metal roof put on here and have tons of bits of aluminum. I acutally was listening for them so i could pick them up so my dog doesn't get cut. I feel your pain and can only imagine how annoying that is.

On my Kruzer I used the 4 tone mode and blocked out everything then unblocked known good target types that I had various old coins, common coins and common gold targets like wedding rings, small gold. I thin used the notch audio the kruzer has which still allows me to hear the targets but makes the notched target ranges quieter. People familiar with the kruzer know how odd the 4 tone really is but with slow sweeps I have been able to pick out some targets in old camp grounds that have burnt aluminum trash and square tabs etc. At end of the day though the trouble with high density trash like aluminum is it can obscure smaller deeper targets below.

Detectors only report what is on top. Only time they don't is with concentric coils with iron another target occupying the same space where the concentric will combine the 2 targets and report as one.

I think with the Max or any machine for that matter a small coil might make your hunt a little easier but still slow and tedious.

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Thanks for your insight, kac. I figured there wasn't much else I could do besides be patient and suck it up.

I imagine this parallels the "if you want to find gold rings, you gotta dig pulltabs" sorta thing.

I'm really close to buying the 5x8 coil for the AT Max. But I'm not 100% sure it'll be my detector for the next few years. I keep hearing the, "get the Equinox..." whispers every time the wind blows...

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There are no magic settings or detector for this type of trash hunting, just the basics. Smaller coil, lower sensitivity & clear it out of the way. At least it will all be shallow. Then go back & find the deeper good targets. You would not regret having the 5X8, it probably would become your most used coil.

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45 minutes ago, JCR said:

There are no magic settings or detector for this type of trash hunting, just the basics. Smaller coil, lower sensitivity & clear it out of the way. At least it will all be shallow. Then go back & find the deeper good targets. You would not regret having the 5X8, it probably would become your most used coil.

Thanks for confirming.

I think what I'll do is go back to the old house and make sure I have at least 3 or so hours to hunt. However, before I do, I'll let the owner know I plan on doing a lot of digging and if he's ok with that. I'll explain that I need to remove all the aluminum siding and other trashy bits to increase my chances of finding coins. If he balks, no biggie, I got my curiosity satisfed (I always wanted to hunt that property).

As for the 5x8 coil, I may need to get it to give the AT Max a fair shake when I inevitably compare it directly to the Equinox.

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I've been looking at the 5x8 for my AT Pro but torn between that and the one from Mars. I have a Mars Tiger on it now and works really well in the water, nice and beefy so I don't worry if I snag up on a log or bounce off a rock but bit heavy for land hunting.

I really like the settings I have on my Kruzer, can hunt just about anywheres with it but like all vlf's they have their limitations and not a whole lot of difference between them in the field. I find the really high sensitivity on the Kruzer is actually conter productive in some (not all) of the ponds here where I have trouble ground balancing it. The AT Pro handles those areas much better.

As for a new machine just wait and see what Nokta and Garrett have coming out. A smaller coil will get you where your going. The Max is no slouch on depth thats for sure. If you need to squeeze out a bit more sensitivity just manually drop your gb 5 clicks or so. Too chattery go up 5 or so.

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38 minutes ago, kac said:

As for a new machine just wait and see what Nokta and Garrett have coming out. A smaller coil will get you where your going. The Max is no slouch on depth thats for sure. If you need to squeeze out a bit more sensitivity just manually drop your gb 5 clicks or so. Too chattery go up 5 or so.

Oh, I'm hoping what N/M (and likely Minelab and Garrett) have in the pipeline blow the pants of the Equinox 600/800. That means we'll see a bunch of used 600 and 800 machines for sale...and for cheap.

Remember what happened to the used price of the CTX 3030 when the Equinoxes came out? 😇

In the mean time, I'll keep my eyes peeled for a good, used 5x8 coil...or just "buy" one from Amazon for free. 

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I don't think any of the machines just blow the others away, some edge others out in some circumstances.

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15 hours ago, mh9162013 said:

Today I had a long day of hunting...my longest yet. It started off at a park and ended at a permission of an old home that is at least 120 years old. This post concerns my hunt at the latter location.

I had a little under 2 hours to hunt the old home and just found a few clad coins, some trash bits and A LOT of aluminum siding peices. The aluminum siding pieces were mostly the size of postage stamps and half dollars, although a few were the size of a playing card. These larger pieces were likely targets I left in the ground after using my pinpointer (F-Pulse) and realizing the target was far larger than a coin.

I've detected since early '65, and started hunting older homesites (existing or vacant former homesites) in late '68.  I try to dedicate 85% or more of my hunt-time to working anyplace that is considered 'old'.  Sometimes, at least a smaller percentage, I can get lucky and make some desirable finds relatively soon.  Most of the time, however, it takes a while to really get a handle on the sate environment, and then put in the time to thoroughly cover the area with the right detector, best coil, and working it slowly and methodically.  Only 2 Hours?  Not nearly enough time to do a good job of covering any 120 year old sire.

Aluminum, or any othr non-ferrous debris is going to cause some issues, both with the 'teaser' good-sounding higher-conductivity responses, and the target-masking when too close to a desired target.

Using a lot of Discrimination will increase the number of good targets you're not going to find, and ignoring some of those 'larger-size' encounters might be an idea to use to avid recovering a bigger-size piece of junk .... however.  Hare's a little true story to make you wonder.

I believe it was late late 1980's in Ogden Utah.  A fellow ot permission to hunt an older home he was working along the side of the house in the dirt  that extends out about 1½' to 2' from the house where you could plant shrubs, flowers or just have dirt.  Good signal so he got down to recover it.  It was directly below a bedroom window where a kid might play around and push money out while 'playing', or ???

What caused the good-size signal a few inches down?  Fifteen, and I mean 15 coins, all Silver Dollars and Silver Halves, 7 of one and 8 or the other denomination.  Kind of something to think about when you decide to 'walk-away' from a larger-size signal.

 

15 hours ago, mh9162013 said:

I mostly hunted the old house using the following three modes:

One mode was Custom. Sensitivity varied between 2 and 8 bars and I notched out everything that was below 65 or so. This seemed to work ok, except I hit a lot of targets in the 70s, but they were almost always a peice of aluminum siding. Using this mode, I probably dug about 10 holes and found 1 coin, 1 soda can and 8 bits of aluminum siding (this is a rough estimate).

The second mode was also Custom. Sensitvity varied b/w 2 and 8 bars and I notched out everything that was below 80. This was the most enjoyable hunting in that it was quiet and I wasn't digging as much aluminum siding. Using this mode, I probably dug about 6 holes and found 2 coins, 1 soda can and 3 bits of aluminum siding (this is my rough estimate).

The third mode was Zero. Sensitvity varied b/w 2 and 8 bars and I notched out everything that was 35 and below. This was a very annoying mode, given how noisy the AT Max was, but at least I got to hear what my AT Max was "seeing" in the ground. I probably dug about 8 holes in this mode and found 1 coin, 1 soda can and 6 bits of aluminum siding (this is also a rough estimate).

In case you're wondering, the soil was dark with little to no mineralized clay. I don't recall what the AT Max ground balanced at, but maybe in the low 80s, if I recall correctly.

I presume you are using the AT Max with the stock 8½X11 DD coil, correct?  I have that size coil as the largest coil I use on any detector in my outfit nd keep in on my 2nd Apex.  It's a very good coil for a beach, or working a plowed field, pasture or farmland, or a wide-open grassy park.  It's definitely not a good pick for hunting any site with a lot of trash, building debris or dense brush.  A smaller-size coil is best, or a good mid-size coil, IF the detector and coil work well in such an environment with a good fast response an quick recovery.

On my primary-use #1 Apex I keep the 'Ripper' 5X8 DD coil mounted full-time and that combination works very well for a lot of, the trashier places I like to hunt, especially those with a lot of Iron Nails and other ferrous debris.  I really wish Garrett would make their 4½ Concentric coil to work with the SMF & Selectable Apex.  The only available smaller-size coil right now that I know of is the NEL 5" Sharp DD, and it works okay.  With the AT MAX you have the advantage because you can get the  Garrett 4½" snooper coil.  If i o3ned an AT MAX I'd use the 'Ripper' size most of the time and have the 4½" on a spare rod for a quick change to work trashier areas.

On my Apex devices, all three of them, I have them set to turn-on with my Custom settings of MF, Volume at '8', Iron Volume at '2', and Discrimination accepting everything from '20' on up.  I like to hear some of the low-tone Iron I most areas.  I keep the Iron Audio push-button selection turned 'Off' and ONLY use it on occasion as a 'momentary' function to double-check some questionable audio responses.

EMI?  The 1st thing I do is reduce the Sensitivity to see if that helps.

The 2nd thing I try, if necessary, is to change to a Single-Selectable Frequency on the Apex, and I usually am able to deal with EMI at 15 kHz, and if not then 10 kHz tends to handle it.

The 3rd thing I adjust ... if necessary ... is the Frequency Shift.

If you select the ZERO Disc. mode and then reject targets with a VDI or '38' and below, you're no longer in a Zero Disc. function but simply a Custom setting.

 

15 hours ago, mh9162013 said:

So my question is: what could I have done differently to dig more coins and less aluminum siding? Yes, the aluminum siding sounds a smidge different than coins. And the larger peices don't have the pin-pointy beep that a coin has. But for the smaller bit of aluminum siding, the sound is so close to the sound of a clad or silver coin. As a result, I can't bear to not dig something that sounds that close to a coin.

I hope to go back to that old house and get permission to hunt it a second time. But if I do that, I hope to have a few changes I can make to make my hunting less tiring and less damaging to the owner's yard.

If you doubt you're going to encounter a 'cluster' or 'stash' of coins, then you can try to recover only those targets that produce a smaller-size response that might b similar to what you'd get from a small Dime to a larger Silver Dollar.  That might eliminate going after the over-size aluminum or any pesky iron junk, like a rusty can or bigger-size tin shard.

Do not reject anything higher than a VDI close to '35'.  Get and use a smaller-size search coil, like the Ripper or smaller 4½" snooper coil.  Make sure you are not rushing things and work the coil in a slow and methodical sweep that overlaps.  Grid some areas and clean them out.  That will also allow you to find targets that are otherwise masked or partially mask right now.

Monte

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2 hours ago, Monte said:

Most of the time, however, it takes a while to really get a handle on the sate environment, and then put in the time to thoroughly cover the area with the right detector, best coil, and working it slowly and methodically.  Only 2 Hours?  Not nearly enough time to do a good job of covering any 120 year old sire.

That's really good to hear, as it implies I'm not an idiot and that what I perceive as a challenge is due to the fact that it's actually hard to do.

As for boosting discrimination, I understand that it'll likely lead to missing out on good targets. But if I were to dig anything that rang up as a 70 or higher on my AT Max at that old house, I'd literally be digging a target every 45 seconds.

With respect to the larger targets, those were far larger than a coin, and only rang up as an 80 or so. I imagine a large cache of silver coins would ring up as a 90 or higher with an AT Max?

Yes, I was using the stock 8.5x11 coil yesterday with my AT Max. The more I hear people talk about that coil compared to the 5x8, the more I wonder why Garrett made that the stock coil! I want that coil for the reduced weight, if for no other reason. Then tack on the fact that it's better in trash, and it looks like the only reason not to get it is if I find an Equinox 600 for cheap.

I sometimes use Iron Audio, but not often. And I never actively hunt with it on. I only use it as a "tie breaker" when I have a target I'm debating whether to dig or not.

If I go back to that old house (with or without the 5x8 coil) with the primary goal of finding silver coins, what's the advantage of only setting my discrimination to 35? Is there a realistic chance that my AT Max could detect a silver coin and have the VDI ring it up in the 40s?

Thanks again for your advice here; it's much appreciated. 😀

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