Jump to content

Something Coming! Any Guesses?


Recommended Posts

22 hours ago, Rob in (ca) said:

Hopefully The New Deus is got A Better VDI Number Scale

and more accurate TID

Link to comment
Share on other sites


On 10/16/2021 at 10:22 PM, Melano87 said:

I don’t think them to release a machine to compete with Vanquish, Apex etc

I also don’t see them release a detector under 1000 € like the Equinox so they remain in the price range of the CTx3030 to compete (~1500€).

Well they better consider it.  Equinox and Apex and perhaps even the forthcoming NM SMF (as evidenced by Simplex) all project a decreasing price trend not the other way around.  Even with "CTX-like" display and disc features, XP would be hard pressed to justify even the existing Deus price point, though Deus units are still being sold at a decent clip, particularly discounted used detectors.  CTX is clearly overpriced for what you do get and I am certain that ML is working on the next gen CTX replacement with higher end features and (hopefully) build quality vs. Equinox (and of course, a likely higher than Equinox but not "CTX level" price point).

17 hours ago, ☠ Cipher said:

There’s little to nothing else out there in the wild. They’ve kept it quiet. No ideas about whether it has a color lcd or entirely new remote though it would seem like it would have to be if the waterproof rumors are true. But no specific features or frequencies.
 

Personally I expect a top tier innovative foundation to build on. The future of metal detecting is already headed toward feather light selectable and simultaneous multi as standard features. Nowhere else to go but standardizing color LCD graphics and adding peripheral gadgetry, like smart glasses (likely built off of or integrated with headphones), and some level of cell phone integration. In other words enhancements you can attach to your head or arm rather than adding weight to the detector. The days of bulky detectors are coming to a close.

Whether the XP SMF emulates Equinox or CTX in features is anybody's guess, but like I said previously, ability for the user to manipulate the the SMF spectrum and processing independently would be welcome (with accompaying simplified, default turn on and go modes).  I like the color graphics display (readable in sunlight or with an accompanying high contrast mono mode) and peripherals as features approach you are advocating. 

Other thoughts: Touch screens and/or a USB interface for ease of off-the-field programming backed up by physical controls (dirty detecting gloves and touch screens do not work well together) would also be welcome.  Also, something else I forgot to mention in my previous wish list is an option for an inexpensive "dumb" wireless headset a la Orx would also be desirable.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am inclined to believe the new XP machine is likely to be innovative, feature-rich, and priced accordingly. If the performance is there (real or perceived) consumers will justify the pricing by way of opening their wallets in gleeful anticipation.

That said I also believe XP would be wise to take note of current trend (set by their competition) toward decreased prices for very capable machines. At the very least, XP would seemingly be served well if they made an effort to seriously compete in that segment of the market.

With modern machines (for the most part) being software based, I am a bit surprised that we have yet to see a manufacturer offer one machine that can target multiple segments of the market. At this point software delivery is relatively routine; click a link or two, pay the amount required, and download a bunch of new features/performance.

From the manufacturer’s standpoint such a system offers significant advantages:

Tool and die costs are spread out over multiple (software) variations of the same machine. Physically the base model would be the same exact machine as the premium model. Given XP’s excellent ergonomics, I would think they can use the exact same platform they’re currently using for the Deus (further spreading the costs of manufacturing).

A company portal (for loading the new software) allows the manufacturer the ability to bypass the middleman (dealers) and the associated commissions that are incurred - increasing profit margins and presumably allowing for better prices for the consumer.

Up-selling consumers to more features/performance is simplified, and customer retention is far more likely when top-line performance/features can be realized for a few hundred dollars (verses spending $800+ for a competitor’s machine).

There are significant advantages for the consumer too:

A base model offers the consumer the opportunity to try a machine at a lower financial risk, while retaining the option of upgrading their machine to a top-level machine (should they decide to) for a relatively minor investment.

The investment (in a top line model) is more easily spread out over time. Buy the base model then update to the top line model later (when desired and the money is on hand).

Suppose XP offered a base SMF model at a targeted retail price somewhere around $500-$600. Make it capable of using the ORX wireless backphones (purchased separately) but ship it with the wired phones. Keep it fairly simple, but with enough features/performance to compete favorably with machines like the Vanquish 540, the Apex, and perhaps even the Equinox 600.

Want more?

Buy and install the premium software (say for $300) and now your machine is unlocked, with all the features and performance that XP is capable of delivering. The machine is now capable of working with the Ws4 backphones and can compete (favorably) with the competition’s top line models. Bundle the unlocked software with the Ws4 backphones and a MI6 pinpointer (at a price that makes that package attractive).

I’m not saying that such a business model should happen (concerning metal detectors) or even that it will happen. I’m just surprised that it hasn’t.
 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then watch piracy kick in at full force, dumps of the software upgrades all over the place people installing for free.  They'd need some sort of license key situation that a key can only be used once and on one detector, they could have an algorithm that when you purchase the upgrade it uses the serial number of your machine to generate the upgrade code which then only works on your machine and is checked online.

Sure there are always ways to get around all sorts of protection but I just don't see metal detectors as something that anyone serious would bother trying to break the protection, especially if it's very difficult with online verification and serial number matching for machines.  It'd be best done like some software where features are unlocked by the license key you enter rather than requiring customers to firmware update machines and just have the license key "activate" to the detector online so it can't be used on another detector.  It'd be funny to see key generators for metal detectors 😛

It all sounds good and would be nice and convenient for customers to be able to upgrade at home with a few simple clicks.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Something similar has already been done. The White's VX3 had the exact same hardware as the V3i but the features (all software) were considerably stripped back. However, all those features are still in there and can be progressively enabled with the right passwords. I think there were 4 levels: the VX3, 2 levels in-between, and the V3i. The thinking was that when a customer got good with the VX3 he could then "buy up" to the next level for, say, $99. It would have had the benefit for White's that a new customer would be less likely to overbuy and get frustrated with the V3i, and for the customer that they could buy only as much as they wanted.

The "upgrade" was never implemented, mgmt didn't like the idea. Please don't ask me how to do it; it required running the unit's serial number through a passcode generator that only White's had, and I'm certain that even that has been lost.

 

  • Like 5
  • Oh my! 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My thoughts.

Xp is well aware of what all current released detectors can do and not do.  They also know what the other models are priced.  Xp is a major detector manufacturer.  And they have been real good at keeping the lid on their new releases and new firmware.

Yes Xp has been very innovative, and I don’t expect this to change or end any time soon.

An Xp SMF unit that is additionally capable of running Deus freqs and keep its performance in iron would be a worthy detector (as long as the SMF portion works real good).

Question is though if XP has gone this route what will happen to ORX and DEus?  Guess their price points for these units could be lowered somewhat.

The competition should be good for the industry as a whole.  That teaser video.  Look like the Boss’ name on the back of the chair.

Some folks think Xp has been gimmicky.  Well, I disagree. I think Xp has at least got some of the other manufacturers to make lighter overall detectors.  This definitely is a good thing.  And updatable detectors too.  Don’t forget that.  Xp has infact been industry leaders.

And no I am not in the tank with Xp.  I have zero affiliation with Xp other than buying and using their equipment.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Similar Content

    • By ColonelDan
      I've read several threads on the soon-to-be-fielded Deus 2 and how it will compare to the Equinox. There have been many good views on this topic so I thought I'd share mine. As you read this, keep in mind the views expressed here are worth just as much as you've paid for them. 😁

      1. Wireless vs Wired: I'm 99% a salt water beach hunter with my EQX 800 and the way I grid a beach, I often go from the damp sand to the wet sand and then into the surf (only about 1 foot deep due to concerns over water intrusion so I keep the control box dry). Given that, a Deus II for me would have to be constantly wired from coil to control box in order to work in the surf. For that reason, a totally wireless capability would not be that enticing since the wire from coil to box would be a permanent configuration.

      2. Waterproof: I owned a Deus and found it to be a solidly engineered machine so I'm not a skeptic where XP claims of being waterproof are concerned. Were I to make a wager, I'd bet on much better waterproof performance in the Deus II than was the original ML waterproof claim for the EQX. Being truly waterproof is important for me and not because I hunt deeper than 1 foot in salt water these days because I don't. Ours is an outdoor hobby so I think all detectors should be waterproof...at the very least, reliably weatherproof. How many times have you been caught in the rain or dropped your detector in a puddle of water? Even if you are a land hunter and never go near any water, replacing a damaged or inop machine due to moisture intrusion isn't a trivial thing.

      3. Build quality: The Deus I had was quality built, rugged and reliable. No coil ear issues, wobbly shafts or arm cuff breakage. In my view, it was a much more rugged detector than Minelab products in certain areas. XP doesn't seem to pinch pennies as did Minelab on simple things. Recall the original skimpy gaskets they put in the CTX 3030 that caused flooding of the battery box. The issue was solved when they came out with merely a little thicker gasket! Their use of cheap coil ears, arm cuffs and wobbly shafts on the EQX series is another example. For a few pennies more per unit, they would have saved untold thousands in warranty replacement costs in both the CTX and EQX series machines. Although they are among the very best where software technology is concerned, I never understood that "penny wise pound foolish" approach in their physical build design.

      4. Overall Performance: This is where the EQX was superior to my original Deus. The multi-frequency/multi IQ of the EQX vs the selectable single frequency of the Deus was an obvious choice in my salt water beach hunting environment. I eventually sold my Deus for that reason. Now, if XP has really overcome that limitation in the Deus II with their FMF feature, I'll be happily impressed.

      5. Final Thoughts: I'm with the others who will take a "wait and see" approach. But, given my past experience with XP engineering, I have no doubt the Deus II will be a very capable salt water beach detector. Will it generally outperform the Minelabs? TBD. Will it be found that XP pinched pennies on their build quality? I say no. It will be a well built unit. Will it be more comfortable to use than the Minelabs? Yes. Will it be more complex in its settings options than the Minelabs? Yes. Will it's overall performance justify the higher price tag compared to the current EQX? TBD but that will be determined solely by and in the eye of the beholder as the saying goes.

      Just a few thoughts from my foxhole...  
    • By Steve Herschbach
      I have owned two Deus detectors, and have almost bought an ORX a half dozen times in the last year. I like the XPs a lot, but they were always just a hair shy of getting me permanently on board.
      The Deus 2 puts it over the goal post, at least on paper, as adding waterproof adds a whole new dimension. Sorry, no, I was never impressed by the original Deus as regards that. But Deus 2 to 60 feet easily adds comfort that Equinox owners now lack based on three years history. And multi of course.
      Still, I was hanging back, in no rush to pull the trigger, as winter is setting in, and frankly, there are other options also appearing at this time. It seemed wise to wait and let the dust settle. But I knew deep down a Deus 2 was probably in my future.
      I want to credit forum member and dealer Kickindirt for nudging me across the line, with an offer of a good deal that I would be silly to refuse. He cast it as an appreciation of thanks for the forum, and that as much as the deal gave me a nice warm fuzzy this morning. So thanks Joel, a very kind gesture on your part, and appreciated.
      It's not like I'm pushing for first in line, more like last, whenever Joel takes care of his other folks. But I do have a Deus 2 with 9" coil on order, along with a set of the underwater bone phones. I've always had issues with regular audio phones underwater, and have always wanted to try bone conduction headphones, as they are used by professional and military divers in many applications. Another unique option from XP, and one I look forward to reporting on someday.


       
      Using ordinary waterproof headphones underwater, the ear fills with water and hearing is often lessened. BH-01 sits in front of the ears on the cheekbone and transmits sound to the inner ear directly through vibrations applied to the bones, without straining the eardrums. Your ears are therefore free.
      You can also use these headphones on land with the freedom of being able to hear your surroundings or, conversely, to isolate yourself from noisy surroundings with ear plugs.
      BH-01 also allows the hearing impaired to feel the vibrations generated by the targets towards the cochlea, or simply the vibrations depending on the type of alteration of the hearing system. Adjusting the audio frequencies downwards (100 to 300 kHz) could further improve perception depending on the disorder.
      Specifications 
      IP68 certified: waterproof up to 20m deep Multi terrain: underwater and for windy and noisy environments Designed to last, 5 Year warranty Made in France
    • By Steve Herschbach
      Minelab gets a bad rap at times over their marketing practices. But everyone does it. Take the Deus 2 claim of being able to choose between 49 frequencies (see upper right in picture below - click or double click for larger version). The reality I am willing to bet a dime on, is that it is actually a choice between 7 frequencies. 4 kHz, 7 kHz, 15 kHz, 21 kHz, 28 kHz, 35 kHz, and 45 kHz. The other 42 frequencies are almost certainly just the tiny offsets included for EMI canceling purposes, 6 offsets for each of the 7 primary frequencies. They did the same thing with the original Deus, counting these small offsets as separate frequencies for marketing purposes (X35 coils for 35 frequencies).
      Anyway, I'm not posting this as a criticism per se, since again, everyone does this stuff. Just for newbies or people unfamiliar with multifrequency detectors, don't think this will give you a true 49 frequency range to choose from. 4 to 45 in single frequency steps would not even add up to that many, and frankly, that would be too much for no real purpose. Frequency differences only matter if there is enough spread. The difference between 10 kHz and 11 kHz would be perceptible to nobody. From a control perspective even, it would be silly to scroll through 49 frequencies, and you will not. The Deus 2 will let you choose from 7 single frequencies, and the others will only happen in a separate Frequency Shift menu, three positive, and three negative offsets. So 14.7, 14.8, 14.9, 15 kHz, 15.1, 15.2, 15.3 for the 15 kHz setting. That's seven versions of 15 kHz, do the same with the other 6 primary frequencies, and bingo, you get 49 frequencies. But not really - it's seven folks.
      Also, just like Equinox with it's six frequencies, don't think all seven frequencies are going to be running at once in the multi modes. People assume that, and then get angry when they find out different. But it will never be stated explicitly by XP that this is what is going on, because it is not. Generally all you need is three frequencies for an optimum solution, and adding more takes more processing power while adding nothing real as far as capability. All that matters is the mix you use depending on the goal. Gold prospecting will be "weighted" to high frequency, silver coins will be "weighted" to lower frequencies. No matter what, we still do not have one multi mode that does everything. Saltwater modes must ignore signals you really want while gold prospecting, otherwise you detect the salt.
      I repeat, I'm not trying to ding XP with this post. Just saying that with Deus 2 you will get a machine with several multi modes customized for several situations, none of which are using all seven frequencies - certainly not 49!!. And you will have the option of choosing between seven different single frequencies. Know the realities of the tech, and be realistic to avoid disappointment.
      I have to admit I really like what I see with the Deus 2. If I had to pick one VLF to buy right now, this would be it.

    • By Kickindirt
      Well don't know about you guys. Ive been a big fan of the deus from day one. SO im convinced take my money!!
       
      XP Deus II the perfect balance
       
    • By Steve Herschbach
      XP Deus II at $1599
      versus
      Nokta/Makro Legend at $635
      Is Deus II worth over double the price? And how do both match up against Multi-IQ? Only head to head field tests will tell, but this looks like a real grudge match if I ever saw one!

    • By ☠ Cipher
      Reasons to Hold on to Your Equinox 
      Proven performance with frequency selection, and frequency weighting solutions proven in the field. 4,5,10,15,20, and 40khz cover the range of detecting scenarios. There are diminishing returns for frequencies over 20khz so that the difference between 40 and 45 is quite a bit more negligible than one would think, and effectiveness will boil down to other factors having to do with proper tuning; gain for example, as we have seen before. Minelab has done for multifrequency what XP has done for (digital) performance in iron infested and commingled sites. When one steps into the wheelhouse of the other we would be right to take a wait and see approach. Equinox came closer to, but did not match or eclipse Deus’ strengths in single frequency modes and I’m sure they tried. We should not assume Deus 2 will eclipse an Equinoxes strengths quite yet. In fact it’s a bit early to even assume Deus 2 will retain all of Deus 1 strengths. There’s a tightrope to be walked and compromises to be made trying to be all things to all people in every detecting scenario. 
      Deus 2 underwater solution remains dodgy. The main advance comes in the form of the waterproof remote. Despite the repetition of “no cords” during the underwater promo, use of an antenna is still necessary, and we can debate about whether an antenna of this nature constitutes a “cord.” The lack of forthrightness here knocked my trust down a couple notches as it was perfectly clear the company intentionally created a buzz implying they had made a breakthrough here they actually had not. The fact however remains that a robust and secured cord remains the best solution for submersion underwater. Wireless solutions still do not exist and has not in fact been achieved for underwater metal detecting.
      Coil selection. Although Equinox coil selection is not what it could be if opened up to more 3rd party players, the coil selection at present is sufficient to cover a wider range of scenarios with 6” round, 5”x10, 11” round, 9”x14”, 12”x15” and 15” round selections. If the Deus 1 is any indication the wider selection here will always be the case. 
       
      Save $650. Not an insignificant amount of money that could be spent on other detecting items (even an ORX).
      Honestly, I couldn’t come up with very much and reason 2 is a bit like throwing stones in a glass house. XP Deus 2 looks pretty good, and so it just remains to be seen if it truly is all it claims to be. What reasons can you think of to hold onto your equinox 800?
×
×
  • Create New...