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New Age Coils - Raw Performance Or Part Placebo


AussieMatt

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To be honest Matt I reckon you made the best decision in buying and running you're Zed.

You've had the GPX's and SDC sussed out well, and now a new to you unit that lets face it ...once you gell with it you aren't missing out. 
I think you can be pretty safe in the knowledge that you're running the best scenario.

I know there are quite a few that say that such and such coil on the GPX brings it right to the edge of Zed comparability, and good on em, that's confidence for you. But it aint so.

Norvic's opinion on un-dug comparisons are pretty spot on.
The newer coils do give an edge, that's concrete now, although not in all ground types and not close to a few old goldfield towns. 
I do know that two of them give me a distinct advantage on some queer ground types, but those coils are on earlier units than the 5000. And the Zed does not like this type of ground as they are unusual heavy mineral run-off type of sloping gully's that finish in large square yardage of hardened deep ground.

Another thing to consider is that while the newer range of coils are behaving and giving this advantage as per advertised, there are some earlier units in the Minelab range that get a touch finicky with them. But I guess the same could be said for quite a few coils that have been on the market for years. And even amoung the same model ie: 4500 (a few distinct varieties in that mix) you can find a unit that particular hates some coils.


 

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Gotta put in a thought here.  Lets disregard the Zed and any other machine that uses a fixed coil at this time.  Its not fair to the topic.

I still have my GP3000 and it still works well.  Prior to that I had the SD2100e and that just as the SD2200 came out... remember seeing that for the first time with an old bloke and his crew while I was in Victoria. Hehh.... point is I carried over with my coils of that time, the stock 11 DD and a Mono coil tech Joey.  When I went to the 3000 I looked hard at what was available and ghosted a fair bit in the forums.  I came to the 14 coil tech salt coil and then the 16 DD reversible nugget finder and last a 20 DD nugget finder.  I never had any good results with another mono coil, loaners, save for a loan on an 11 mono nugget finder loaned to me by a detecting mate.  Face it the GP3000 is a DD machine.  I'll still use DD's as I've found them to be very good when worked right.  Probalbly not a good Idea now that the 4000 and above were built for Mono's.... again the machine and its uses.

  Now there was no placebo in it for me.  The salt coil was for use in the US due to emi.  The reversible 16 was a fun to play with item and I liked the thought of reversing signals however in DD and mono it gave me that added coverage I wanted as well *found a lot of gold with it* and the stock coil 11 DD always payed for itself as well as the Mono Joey.  Only the 20 DD never did well but then I did not use it for as long as I'd like and the metal I carry is a bit .... distracting  Hehh.  Found I did not need the coverage.

Now I did look at coils like the platypus and the Commander series when they came out but ehh.... did not fit my needs and I dont like to "feel good" about my stuff.  Just want it to work where I'm going to work.

 

These are not New Age coils but they were at the time.  And I saw more than a few people accessorizing like, uhm.... never mind, at the time with what I considered bling ;)  Just a thought.  Maybe things work.  Maybe not but its the operator and well... I said it already in the last post.

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  • 3 weeks later...

AussieMatt,

I don't want to try to come off as an Xpert as I'm not.  If I understood you correctly you said you went over some ground with the 14" Coiltek Elite mono using your 4500 then again over the same ground with the SDC and found 8 subgram nuggets.  That shouldn't be too much of a surprise.  Even though the 14" elite coil may be enhanced over other older 14" coils it's still probably not a good choice for finding subgrammers.  Of course if you put a 8" coil on the 4500 which is what is on the SDC you probably would have hit those subgrammers.  

As to a placebo effect, I think there is some there.  If I already had a properly working 14" moncoil I would not invest in a new "enhanced" coil and I would bet the difference would be small. But on the other hand, if I were looking for a lager coil to find deeper gold the enhanced coil might convince me to pass on buying a cheaper older coil for the newer model.  

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Yeah comparing different machines or vastly different coils is really not what the main question is on this thread.

It really boils down to this old round 14" mono made by one guy versus the newer 14" mono made by another guy. And then the latest 14" mono made with the new wire. And then the even newer 14" mono made with the new wire but twisted another way.

I look at them all and frankly, they are all just 14" mono coils to me. If I want different performance I get a bigger coil or a smaller coil or a DD coil. What I generally do not do is buy into the idea of there being much difference between what are basically the same coil. When it gets down to that I just look for which one is the lightest yet at the same time the toughest, and at the best price. Any magic pixie dust has to be free of charge.

Maybe not right in the details, just how I look at it.

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"I keep hearing or reading how these coils are transforming GPX's into SDC's or even GPZ's but this short "test", for want of a better word, put some doubts in my mind."

There were 2 x other blokes using the GPX's & I followed them. Like I  said it was hardly a comprehensive or scientific test but most comparison testing I read isn't either. Most could pick any of them to pieces, pointing out flaws or omissions. An example would be a recent one I seen with a GPX5000 fine gold using an Elite coil picking up a signal that the GPZ7000 couldn't. The GPX user was using pretty much a variation of Bogenes settings i.e. gain maxed, threshold lowered. He said the GPZ had the sensitivity maxed too? No other modes or settings or whether anything else was tried was mentioned. The GPX bettering the GPZ with a new type coil seemed to be the only point of the story?
 
My "test" served nothing but to show me that comparisons or "testing" can go either way depending on a wide range of variables including operator & location (desired outcome too in some cases ). Coil & machine choice + success is more dependant on these 2 factors than anything else IMO. The above GPX/GPZ signal comparison is another example - location isn't mentioned & the settings being used (variation of Bogenes) don't suit all operators.

If money were no object I'd like to own a SDC, GPX & GPZ. I guess my point on the coils was that I don't believe these new coils will "convert" your GPX to cover them all. Likewise the SDC & GPZ aren't going to either.

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Appreciate the like on the post I made AusseiMatt however I gotta point out, and Steve remunerated, that its comparing apples to oranges when speaking on differences between different technologies.  In point of topic, when comparing various coil designs its only fair to equate them to the machines that are using them.  The Zed is a fixed coil machine till someone comes up with different configurations *and even then its a different species of machine and thus NOT comparable to any other machine till competitors or new models come on market*.  The point of the thread relates to those muti-configuratble devices. IE the coils.  Settings are a moot point.

I tried to relate that in my simple memories of the 2100e to that of the GP3000.  Those and later model's of ML equipment are pretty much fully compatible for coils as accessories across the line.  However 4000 models and up are not, according to my reading, DD coil machines and do not benefit greatly by differing coil designs in the DD coil realm.  And in some cases the Mono realm.  Digitization of many of the parameters for various ML machines since the 3500 have made a muck of things~ my thought~ however advances in detecting ability due to coil change out are really a matter of preview by the user and their settings for their particular machine, terrain and tenacity..

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Just spent a couple of days in a very hot and steamy Maldon, central Victoria for one sub gram nugget that my buddy nailed with his Zed , wasn't to disappointed as the humidity and ferocious EMI as well as huge amounts of original mining debri still laying about undisturbed for the last century will make for some exciting prospecting over winter. 3030 country for sure.

anyways before we hit the goldfields we stopped in at coil tech based in Marybourough and had a chat to a bloke who was carrying the original Elite test coil, No:1,and he was kind enough to tell us that difference in design is based on the windings being flat in nature , the same amount of turns per coil size but layed flat with a shield of plastic before being " potted " in resin. He went on to explain that this setup gives more sensitivity to the outside of the coil rather than your classic pinpoint centre of the original mono's and so create a signal shape more a kin to a "basin" rather than pin point or conical. This very decent bloke whose name was never mentioned also suggested that if you tilt the coil slightly towards yourself instead of laying it flat as with most coils you will get better coverage and targability.

good luck from down under. Enjoy your forums and thanks for the shared knowledge.  Chris.

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That is information I like to see :)  Thanks Breakofday.

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  • 1 year later...

So nearly 4 years on, what's everyone's thoughts? 

If you look at what "normal" aftermarket Mono's are left on the market, I think there lies the answer. 

Coiltek 22" Goldstalker

NuggetFinder 8x6" Sadie

Detech 15x10" (they have a couple others you can order but this is the biggest seller)

All the rest are Elite, Evolution and Detech Ultra/Super Deep. 

I think there is an element of panic buying, or buying what's new or cool, or the training guy uses that brand and he finds gold so I'll buy the same etc etc. but long term what sells is what works, and that is what stays on the market. Things that aren't selling get discontinued.

So the fact that flat/spiral wound coils outnumber bundle wound options probably 5:1 I think tells you they are a definite improvement. 

But if you want to see proof of them outperforming bundle wound coils, even in highly mineralised WA dirt, here's a good video. Kind of shows why you couldn't give away a 17x11 Advantage coil when the 17x13 Evo came out. 

 

 

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Funny you brought this up Nenad as I was discussing it with jasong recently. The last time this question was asked, it was right after me watching years of coils that really were nothing special. Just new shapes and sizes for both DD and mono coils. Litz wire was the thing, and you saw nothing more. I had a bit of an attitude about the flavor of the year by 2016.

But my last answer is totally different than my answer now. Starting in 2016 things changed. Obviously coil technology has been exploding, with all sorts of new wire types and other innovations. Coils are now looking like a weak part of the system employing old style coils, and the new coils are key to really getting the max out of newer models. Exciting times! :smile:

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