Jump to content

Treasurer Hunters Court Case


Recommended Posts


"Underwater archaeological site"  means nothing more than a place where a ship met its untimely end and  hence forth to be "dissolved" by the corrosive effects of an incessant salt water bath. Better to be salvaged, relocated to a museum and enjoyed by humanity.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting article, thanks for sharing.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

   This case is still a thorn in my backside!!🌵 And obviously, more so to Odyssey Marine, to this day!!

   I had bought a large; (to me) amount of shares of Odyssey Marine for my kids, long before they found this huge amount of treasure! Than the carpet was pulled out from under them, and us investors, by our own courts!! Unbelievable!!

   That would have been a huge help for my daughters college fund! Thanks!! 🤬US Courts!!!

   This, and other more recent discoveries; being awarded to the "country of origin", are the reason why many salvagers have stopped looking for ships in US waters!!

   Other than Mel Fishers hard won case, and his "secured" leases, the vast amount of other's are out of luck! And those potential discoveries will be left to rot away on the ocean floor, where no one will ever see them!!

   Including ironically, the archeologists that fight salvage operations, but don't have the funding, resources, or knowledge, to find them in the first place!!👎👎

  • Like 5
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am always amazed that countries that did not even exist lay claim to treasure found that had been abandoned centuries ago.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

     If the truth be told, Spain shouldn't have been awarded the treasure either, as it was all stolen by conquering Spanish, melted down, and turned into coinage and other items, to be brought to the King of Spain! But because it was on a Spanish "War" ship, their "interpretation" of Maritime Law awarded it to Spain, with the help of our courts!!

   If nothing else, no matter what country it belongs too, the salvagers should get at least half of the value, for finding and recovering any treasure wreck, and leave the other half to be hashed out between whatever countries think they have a claim!! Unless, there was a deal, or collaboration beforehand, on a known location, so that the salvagers were, at least, compensated for their time, and expenses!! 

  There has to be an "Open Market" aspect involved, or else, who would bother to metal detect, if everything found had to be handed over to the government, with zero compensation! Same with Mining, and Fossil hunting! (Other than illegal/black market operations!)

   And on the archeological side, Museums would be nearly empty, if not for "Treasure" hunters finding most of "their" (publicly & privately funded!!) artifacts in the first place!! Which would also further their purchase from the Black Market, which none will admit to doing (but it happens!!), but all admonish! Including private collectors!! JMO!!

   I obviously have strong feelings, and support, for both sides! As not only do I want items to be sufficiently profitable (and legal) to discover, but that it is done in a manner to preserve, protect, and learn from those discoveries that are still in context!! As neither side gets anything, when NO discoveries are being made!! 😔👍👍

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never undersood the policy reasons for not letting treasure hunters get a percentage of the value of what they find. They only reason I can think of is that if something belongs to an owner, it always belongs to them unless some law or legal theory says otherwise. So I guess that b/c Spain owned the coins when they were lost, and no subsequent legal decision changed that, the newly found coins had to go back to Spain.

But if that reasoning is correct, didn't the article say that the coins were mined and minted from South America? In that case, shouldn't the current countries where that silver and gold came from be the "rightful" owners of the treasure? But I suppose that's opening up a whole 'nuther can of worms, given the level of imperialism and colonialism that many, modern-day nations are arguably guilty of.

Here's my proposal:

If you're a treasure hunter looking for a specific treasure, you take reasonable measures to contact the actual or possible legal owner(s) of the treasure. You let them know what your'e trying to do. They can either tell you:

a) "good luck" and go ahead and keep what you find;

b) "good luck" and give us a certain percentage of the vaue of what you find.

c) "I hope you have bad luck" but if you find anything, we get to keep anything you find.

If the owner elects for option C, you either: continue your hunt for the treasure and do it in secret so in the chance that you find it, you get to keep all of it. Or, you tell the owner, "ok, fine, I'm going to go look for something else, then. You enjoy hunting for a treasure where you not only don't know where to look, but you forgot existed until I brought it up."

As you can see, with option C, everyone loses. So it's in everyone's best interest to come to some sort of agreement on how to split the proceeds from any discoveries. Kind of like how the UK does it with certain treasures found on public and private land.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Similar Content

    • By mn90403
      Metal detectorist finds 2,000-year-old dagger wielded by Roman soldier in battle with Rhaetians
       
      https://www.livescience.com/metal-detectorist-finds-dagger-ancient-roman-battle?utm_source=notification
    • By mn90403
      They say this is the largest hoard but it seems to me there are larger ones ...
       
      https://www.livescience.com/largest-treasure-hoard-england?utm_source=SmartBrief&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=368B3745-DDE0-4A69-A2E8-62503D85375D&utm_content=457CDC61-78BE-415D-9BA3-647900D62450&utm_term=9d161709-ab3f-4a42-87ad-b1ed29e66205
    • By KellycoDetectors
      Caesarea National Park isn’t the only place where divers have found vast riches in living memory. There’s also the 1715 Treasure Fleet (also known as the 1715 Plata Fleet — “Plata” being the Spanish word for silver), which was unearthed by an amateur diver and enterprising Florida Man, William Bartlett. He went down to do what many divers do — check out a shipwreck that is hundreds of years old. What he found was so much gold he had to start packing it into his gloves.
      Over the next two days, he and his compatriots found 350 gold coins worth an astonishing $4.5 million. And while other hauls have been pulled out of this shipwreck, this one was the biggest to come from the wreck in decades. 
      Where Did the 1715 Treasure Fleet Come From?
      The story of the 1715 Treasure Fleet is almost the archetype for the American conception of “sunken treasure.” There were 11 ships, totally loaded with treasure, on their way to Spain from Havana in July 1715. The Spanish were badly in need of the gold, as they had just ended the War of Spanish Succession over who would be King of Spain — the French claimant or the Austrian one — and the war badly drained their resources.
      Of course, July is prime hurricane season in Florida, then as it is now and the Spanish did not have the advanced meteorological equipment that we have today for early storm detection. As many as 1,500 Spaniards died in the wreck and it was one of the biggest disasters of the entire Spanish colonial era. Some of the men survived and established a camp while they awaited rescue. The Survivors’ and Salvagers’ Camp can still be visited today, on Orchid Island, Florida.
      The Spanish sent ships and, to their credit, were able to recover about 80 percent of what was on board the ships. This is astonishing, not just because of the relatively limited technology of the time, but also because of the number of pirates mulling around the area trying to score whatever treasure they could. Indeed, famed pirate Henry Jennings was first accused of piracy because of his lurking about trying to recover the lost gold of the 1715 Treasure Fleet.
      But the remaining 20 percent sat in the deep for quite a long time indeed. It took over 250 years before anyone was able to unearth anything that sank during that shipwreck. All told, there were 14 million pesos on the entire fleet.
      Mel Fisher and Kip Wagner: Modern-Day Treasure Hunters
      Mel Fisher and Kip Wagner were treasure hunters who teamed up with the intention of getting the remaining bits of treasure still in the deep waters off the Florida coast. Two ships in the massive wreck were located and it took five years of work to uncover all that they could from just those two ships alone. After they moved onto other projects, various salvage crews worked the area until 1983.
      The Queens Jewels were allegedly on the ship, though these have not, as of yet, recovered. What’s more, the cargo estimates are based on what was registered with the Spanish crown. There is reason to believe that a far greater amount of riches were on the ship in the form of contraband that the captains and their crew were smuggling back for their own personal enrichment, not that of the Spanish crown.
      Unlike some of the other unearthed hoard we have covered here, such as the Hoxne Hoard or the Staffordshire Hoard, there is a clear owner of the shipwreck: Queens Jewels, a salvaging company that acquired the rights to the area in 2010 from the previous owner, treasure hunter Mel Fisher, who came out on top in a long and contentious court battle against the State of Florida. The Spanish government did not attempt to exert a claim on the shipwreck.
      For its part, the State of Florida is entitled to 20 percent of any haul, which is then transferred to a museum in Tallahassee. Whatever is left is then split between Queens Jewels and the lucky treasure hunter. It can easily cost $50,000 to even get to the point where you can begin digging around in the ocean for this gold. Anything that washes ashore is the exclusive property of the person who found it. The 1715 Treasure Fleet is one of the reasons the Treasure Coast in Florida is such a popular place for metal detecting, particularly after hurricanes.
      Eric Schmitt’s Million-Dollar Score
      While Bartlett is one of the biggest scores in recent history, he’s not by any means the only person to strike gold in the deep blue sea thanks to the 1715 Treasure Fleet. Eric Schmitt and his family were able to unearth 52 gold coins and 40 feet of gold chain, as well as 110 silver coins and buttons, which amounted to over a million dollars in value.
      Schmitt dives a lot and it wasn’t his first trip down to the Treasure Fleet looking for his fortune. Usually, however, by his own reporting, all he’s able to come up with is empty holes and beer cans. This time, however, it was vastly different. Only 15 feet down, but 1,000 feet offshore, he was able to strike it rich. A gold coin popped out of the sandbank he was working on. It wasn’t the only coin he would uncover and one of them, a very rare piece called a Tricentennial Royal, was worth $500,000.
      Back in the old days, people who made coins weren’t terribly concerned with how they looked. The main concern was about how much they weighed and what the overall purity of the precious metal was. The Royals, however, were an exception, as they were presented directly to the king himself and had to be of exquisite quality.
      The 1715 Treasure Fleet has seen some exposure in pop culture. A scene in the video game  Assassin’s Creed IV: Black Flag involved the 1715 Treasure Fleet. The first season of the Starz series Black Sails revolves around the 1715 Treasure Fleet and attempts by pirates to recover the riches that it left on the ocean floor.
      It is estimated that there are still $400 million in Spanish gold coins outstanding in the area known as Florida’s Treasure Coast. That’s a lot of gold and silver just sitting around for the right enterprising diver to happen upon it.
      The 1715 Fleet: The Archetypal Sunken Treasure originally appeared on kellycodetectors.com
    • By Jim in Idaho
      According to legend, in a creek not too far from home, there are two gold bars from a stage robbery. Typical bars in these cases were 125 lbs, and would be about 8 x 16 x 3". I'm going to build a small raft, with a detector mounted on it. Said raft will be controllable by me, so it can be caused to sweep back and forth across the width of the creek as I wade behind it. I'd probably be 10-12' behind. because of barbed wire, and other iron trash, I need really good iron discrimination, and the size of the target means I don't need super sensitivity. A large coil would be a help, as would auto ground tracking. Wireless headphones would be a big help, assumin they can reach that 10-12' I'll be behind the detector. Also I'd need the coil to be waterproof to 24", Though I'm not planning on having the coil that deep. The detector being at least water-resistant would be a help. I'm thinking a lower frequency VLF of some sort, for depth, and will probably be buying on the used market as I'm happy with my current fleet of detectors, except for this specialized task. I'm looking for suggestions from you hotshots, and appreciate the help. I guess it doesn't need to be said that I'd like to keep the cost as low as possible.
      Jim
    • By mn90403
      I thought I saw someone here post something about a similar coin they found. 
       
      https://www.livescience.com/pirate-henry-every-treasure-coins-discovered.html?utm_source=notification 
    • By metalhound
      This was posted by someone else in a different forum. I thought that ya'll would find it interesting.
        https://www.wfsb.com/news/local-treasure-hunter-helps-family-in-western-massachusetts-find-hidden-money/article_9109b47c-a2db-11eb-a6ef-eb9bac297655.html

×
×
  • Create New...