Pinpointing/ Target Tracing

[CPT_GhostLight]

I can't necessarily trace out an object like a cross but it's fairly easy to tell oblong targets from round ones and large ones from small ones.

I've been using the drag pinoint method most of the time. That's where you try to center the target in pinpoint mode touching the ground, then drag the coil back towards you until the sound just disappears while watching that point on the ground and then turn 90 degrees and do it again. The spot where the target sound disappears in both directions will be where the target is located. I can then usually quickly verify that spot with my handheld pinpointer.

Also I've noticed to watch for the last number showing on the TID before hitting pinpoint mode. If I find a target next to iron or other trash and the TID shows -4 for example and I hit pinpoint, it will pinpoint the -4 target and may miss the good target. So make sure your good target's number is showing before hitting pinpoint. But don't hit pinpoint directly over the target because it will tune out that number and won't be able to find it.

HTH

[nwdetectorist]

Double-Clutching (Retuning) for the Equinox

In reviewing the Andy Sabisch book on Equinox, as I usually reread manuals and aftermarket books multiple times to catch what I either missed in earlier readings; or now have better understanding of. "'Detuning' for Highly Accurate Pinpointing' tip on page 47 of the Andy Sabisch book covers this really well. I would quote the directions here but don't want to plagiarize.  

[Mr Swing king]

Thanks for all the tips guys, been trying some of them for the last few hunts. Still having trouble on the tiny targets. Equinox will find everything great, center great in pinpoint, then can't find it with my pulsedive. 

 

By the way, Im still thinking some of my issue with sizing objects is a volume issue. I'm running the equinox headphones about 2 steps down from Max if quiet environment, equinox volume at 18. Everything still sounds big and loud.

 

How do you guys set up the volume?

[GB_Amateur]

Ok, it's been 10 days since the original post was made in this thread.  I'll chime in now.  For starters, here's the page in the manual that covers the Pinpoint function:

If you have an Equinox, are interested in using the pinpoint function, and you haven't read it previously, now's a good time to do that.  And if you have read it before, read it again!    nwdetectorist mentioned part of the coverage of this topic by Andy Sabisch in his book.  The full description/instruction begins on p. 45 and goes through p. 47.  I just reviewed that as well.  It's very good, but IMO not as good as what I'm going to say below.  #2.  Important note:  what I relate below is a combination of things I've read (e.g. manual page above, Sabisch's book, posts here on this site) and things I've figured out on my own.  Unless specifically called out, from now on just assume these are my opinions (so I don't have to keep repeating 'IMO') based up all of those forms of learning, and keep in mind what I say may not be accurate.  (Everyone could say that on just about every post, but I'm going to emphasize it here.  Proceed, if you wish, with this in mind.)

0) The pinpoint function (PF) on the ML Eqx has some good features and some bad ones.  As has been noted in some posts above and much previous literature (here and elsewhere), there are many ways to pinpoint a target.  The pinpoint function is a tool but shouldn't be used exclusively.  In my case I use many methods, sometimes all of them on a single target.  But keep in mind that many people prefer not to use the PF, for their own reasons and preferences.  Also, the Eqx PF has some things in common with other detectors but you'll be confused if you expect it to do all the things exactly the same as your other detectors PF functions do (more below).

1) The PF has both audio and a visual indication.  Obviously you can use either or both.  I'd estimate that I use the audio part of PF on at least half of all my targets, but the visual tool on only a few % of finds.  Basically, the visual tool (common to the ML X-Terra series, and maybe others) has an open circular ring around the outside of the display which fills in completely when centered over the target.  At least that's the intent.  As Sabisch points out, for very strong targets that saturate this feature, the ring can fill in before you get centered.  Detuning necessary.  More on that later.

2) The manual mentions "tone and volume modulated".  Volume, yes, but tone pitch?  That is subtle at best.  One of the earlier posters said it was a VCO audio and it might be, but it's nothing like the VCO I've heard on other detectors.  I depend solely upon tone volume for audio determination of target location in PF.

3) There is an annoying occurrence which has been noted (complained about?) since the Eqx was released -- sometimes when activated, the sound from PF is muted and barely audible.  I think one of the software updates addressed this but it didn't completely eliminate the problem.  Sometimes moving away from the target, waiting a couple seconds, and returning solves the problem.  But so does moving to the side, getting out of PF, and then restarting.  These both take about the same amount of time and the latter one is probably more reliable.

4) One thing I disagree with the ML manual above where it says:  "The target ID of the detected target will remain on the Target ID display and the depth indicator will show its approximate depth."  Those statements are inaccurate and misleading.  Both of these indicators are frozen in their respective positions when the PF is activated.  The best location of the coil for determining the optimal readings of these two features is directly over the center of the target when in motion modes, not pinpoint!  As you move away from the target, getting ready to activate PF, you typically get a dTID and a strength indication but those won't be optimal because they are reflective of what the detector picked up when you were moving off to the side to activate pinpoint.  (Some detectors give accurate digital target ID's and depth while in PF.  The Eqx does not.  I suggest you ignore both when in PF.)

5) PF works best when the coil is kept at a uniform height above the ground when moving the coil after activation of PF.  The easiest way to do this is to have the coil in its 'natural' height -- the same height you keep it when searching.  But sometimes (see below) you may want to keep the coil well above the ground so in this cases be particularly careful since it's awkward to maintain a unifrom height in this unnatural position.

6) As noted in the manual and in the Sabisch book, the PF has a dynamic detuning feature which personally I find annoying, frustrating, and worse than worthless.  They should have given users the option of turning it off.   Fortunately it's slow enough to activate that most of the time I don't notice it.  Also fortunately, they include a manual method for detuning which is quite useful.

OK, after all these caveats, let's start with the simplest use of locating a small target and then go into the initial poster's request of target sizing.  You've found a target you want to investigate and would like to accurately pinpoint it for further investigation and/or recovery.  While still in the search mode, move the coil to the side (toward or away also works but to the side is better) until your detector goes quiet.  How far to the side?  Well, you often don't get complete freedom because there are other targets nearby.  Somewhere between half a coil radius and the full coil radius (5.5" for the stock coil) is usually good.  Just make sure it's far enough for the detector to go silent.  Press the pinoint button. (Note:  unlike some detectors, this is a toggle switch so not only don't you need to keep it held down when pinpointing, you shouldn't.  PF stays on until you press the button again.)  Then move the coil (at a moderate to slow pace) back over where you initially determined the target to be and when you get a tone, move it around side-to-side and front-back to get the loudest sound.  If you want to use the visual feature of PF, watch the screen and when all of the segments of the circular ring are highlighted, you've found the target location.  Because of the DD nature of the coil windings, pinpointing with left-to-right motion is more profound/crisp than forward and backward coil movement.  Thus to really get an accurate location, you can walk around the target and just move the coil left-to-right, noting the location that gives maximum volume at multiple compass directions.

If the target gives a strong (loud) PF signal, the manual detune feature comes in handy.  At a coil location where you still hear sound from the target, but not at the volume max, turn off PF and then turn it back on.  Now move back over the target and not only will you get a less ear-blasting sound but also a sharper location.  If the extended target is particularly large/loud you may want to activate and subsequently move the coil (off center, of course) when it is elevated considerably above ground level, e.g. 6 inches above.

OK, what about sizing medium to large extent targets?  While in search mode, move the center of the coil a coil radius (or a bit more, as necessary) away from the perceived target location, again making sure you are over 'silent' ground, not the intended target and not a nearby target.  Activate PF and rather slowly move towards and eventually past the previously perceived target location.  If it's a non-pointlike target (i.e. extended) as you move the coil take note of when the sound appears and when it PF goes silent.  Definitely move around the target and repeat.  For example, if it's a linear target such as a horizontally oriented piece of rebar (i.e. parallel to the surface), in one direction you'll get the sharpest blip from there a 90 degree compass angle change will result in a long, drawn out tone.  How about a paint can lid (again, let's assume oriented parallel to the ground surface)?  Now no matter what compass position you choose, the length of movement from silent to loudest to silent will be about the same.

Manual detuning over an extended target works, too.  You can hone in on the centroid of the target by successive manual detunes.

Now, a word of caution regarding not getting fooled by the dynamic detune feature.  Let's say you've found a silent location near the target to activate PF.  You then move the coil over the target and past it, encountering a strong(er) nearby target than the one you are interested in.  If sufficiently strong, the dynamic pinpoint will kick in and when you subsequently swing back to your intended target you hear nothing.  !#&*@!@%%!#&(!!  You've got to start over and be careful not to get near that unintended target.  Coming from a different direction might be the best solution.  Sometimes nearby targets are so close and loud that PF won't even work at all for locating your intended target.  You'll have to resort to other pinpointing methods in those cases, or dig and remove the nearby bully target and then go back to locating your intended one.  I do this fairly often when I encounter a undesired large target near my intended (hopefully good) target.

Another word of caution, if you don't keep the coil at a uniform height when moving it while in the PF you won't get reliable audio or visual reporting of location by the detector.

One final note.  A metal detector 'sees' the solid angular extent of a target, not its size.  A deep, extended target may sound (when pinpointing as well as searching) like small pointlike targets such as a coin when using PF.  As an anology, consider an approaching train which you can discern far in the distance.  Looks pretty tiny.  Hint:  don't assume it's going to stay tiny and set up your picnic blanket in the middle of the tracks!!  #3 (and final)

[TedinVT]

1 hour ago, GB_Amateur said:

Ok, it's been 10 days since the original post was made in this thread.  I'll chime in now.  For starters, here's the page in the manual that covers the Pinpoint function:

If you have an Equinox, are interested in using the pinpoint function, and you haven't read it previously, now's a good time to do that.  And if you have read it before, read it again!    nwdetectorist mentioned part of the coverage of this topic by Andy Sabisch in his book.  The full description/instruction begins on p. 45 and goes through p. 47.  I just reviewed that as well.  It's very good, but IMO not as good as what I'm going to say below.  #2.  Important note:  what I relate below is a combination of things I've read (e.g. manual page above, Sabisch's book, posts here on this site) and things I've figured out on my own.  Unless specifically called out, from now on just assume these are my opinions (so I don't have to keep repeating 'IMO') based up all of those forms of learning, and keep in mind what I say may not be accurate.  (Everyone could say that on just about every post, but I'm going to emphasize it here.  Proceed, if you wish, with this in mind.)

0) The pinpoint function (PF) on the ML Eqx has some good features and some bad ones.  As has been noted in some posts above and much previous literature (here and elsewhere), there are many ways to pinpoint a target.  The pinpoint function is a tool but shouldn't be used exclusively.  In my case I use many methods, sometimes all of them on a single target.  But keep in mind that many people prefer not to use the PF, for their own reasons and preferences.  Also, the Eqx PF has some things in common with other detectors but you'll be confused if you expect it to do all the things exactly the same as your other detectors PF functions do (more below).

1) The PF has both audio and a visual indication.  Obviously you can use either or both.  I'd estimate that I use the audio part of PF on at least half of all my targets, but the visual tool on only a few % of finds.  Basically, the visual tool (common to the ML X-Terra series, and maybe others) has an open circular ring around the outside of the display which fills in completely when centered over the target.  At least that's the intent.  As Sabisch points out, for very strong targets that saturate this feature, the ring can fill in before you get centered.  Detuning necessary.  More on that later.

2) The manual mentions "tone and volume modulated".  Volume, yes, but tone pitch?  That is subtle at best.  One of the earlier posters said it was a VCO audio and it might be, but it's nothing like the VCO I've heard on other detectors.  I depend solely upon tone volume for audio determination of target location in PF.

3) There is an annoying occurrence which has been noted (complained about?) since the Eqx was released -- sometimes when activated, the sound from PF is muted and barely audible.  I think one of the software updates addressed this but it didn't completely eliminate the problem.  Sometimes moving away from the target, waiting a couple seconds, and returning solves the problem.  But so does moving to the side, getting out of PF, and then restarting.  These both take about the same amount of time and the latter one is probably more reliable.

4) One thing I disagree with the ML manual above where it says:  "The target ID of the detected target will remain on the Target ID display and the depth indicator will show its approximate depth."  Those statements are inaccurate and misleading.  Both of these indicators are frozen in their respective positions when the PF is activated.  The best location of the coil for determining the optimal readings of these two features is directly over the center of the target when in motion modes, not pinpoint!  As you move away from the target, getting ready to activate PF, you typically get a dTID and a strength indication but those won't be optimal because they are reflective of what the detector picked up when you were moving off to the side to activate pinpoint.  (Some detectors give accurate digital target ID's and depth while in PF.  The Eqx does not.  I suggest you ignore both when in PF.)

5) PF works best when the coil is kept at a uniform height above the ground when moving the coil after activation of PF.  The easiest way to do this is to have the coil in its 'natural' height -- the same height you keep it when searching.  But sometimes (see below) you may want to keep the coil well above the ground so in this cases be particularly careful since it's awkward to maintain a unifrom height in this unnatural position.

6) As noted in the manual and in the Sabisch book, the PF has a dynamic detuning feature which personally I find annoying, frustrating, and worse than worthless.  They should have given users the option of turning it off.   Fortunately it's slow enough to activate that most of the time I don't notice it.  Also fortunately, they include a manual method for detuning which is quite useful.

OK, after all these caveats, let's start with the simplest use of locating a small target and then go into the initial poster's request of target sizing.  You've found a target you want to investigate and would like to accurately pinpoint it for further investigation and/or recovery.  While still in the search mode, move the coil to the side (toward or away also works but to the side is better) until your detector goes quiet.  How far to the side?  Well, you often don't get complete freedom because there are other targets nearby.  Somewhere between half a coil radius and the full coil radius (5.5" for the stock coil) is usually good.  Just make sure it's far enough for the detector to go silent.  Press the pinoint button. (Note:  unlike some detectors, this is a toggle switch so not only don't you need to keep it held down when pinpointing, you shouldn't.  PF stays on until you press the button again.)  Then move the coil (at a moderate to slow pace) back over where you initially determined the target to be and when you get a tone, move it around side-to-side and front-back to get the loudest sound.  If you want to use the visual feature of PF, watch the screen and when all of the segments of the circular ring are highlighted, you've found the target location.  Because of the DD nature of the coil windings, pinpointing with left-to-right motion is more profound/crisp than forward and backward coil movement.  Thus to really get an accurate location, you can walk around the target and just move the coil left-to-right, noting the location that gives maximum volume at multiple compass directions.

If the target gives a strong (loud) PF signal, the manual detune feature comes in handy.  At a coil location where you still hear sound from the target, but not at the volume max, turn off PF and then turn it back on.  Now move back over the target and not only will you get a less ear-blasting sound but also a sharper location.  If the extended target is particularly large/loud you may want to activate and subsequently move the coil (off center, of course) when it is elevated considerably above ground level, e.g. 6 inches above.

OK, what about sizing medium to large extent targets?  While in search mode, move the center of the coil a coil radius (or a bit more, as necessary) away from the perceived target location, again making sure you are over 'silent' ground, not the intended target and not a nearby target.  Activate PF and rather slowly move towards and eventually past the previously perceived target location.  If it's a non-pointlike target (i.e. extended) as you move the coil take note of when the sound appears and when it PF goes silent.  Definitely move around the target and repeat.  For example, if it's a linear target such as a horizontally oriented piece of rebar (i.e. parallel to the surface), in one direction you'll get the sharpest blip from there a 90 degree compass angle change will result in a long, drawn out tone.  How about a paint can lid (again, let's assume oriented parallel to the ground surface)?  Now no matter what compass position you choose, the length of movement from silent to loudest to silent will be about the same.

Manual detuning over an extended target works, too.  You can hone in on the centroid of the target by successive manual detunes.

Now, a word of caution regarding not getting fooled by the dynamic detune feature.  Let's say you've found a silent location near the target to activate PF.  You then move the coil over the target and past it, encountering a strong(er) nearby target than the one you are interested in.  If sufficiently strong, the dynamic pinpoint will kick in and when you subsequently swing back to your intended target you hear nothing.  !#&*@!@%%!#&(!!  You've got to start over and be careful not to get near that unintended target.  Coming from a different direction might be the best solution.  Sometimes nearby targets are so close and loud that PF won't even work at all for locating your intended target.  You'll have to resort to other pinpointing methods in those cases, or dig and remove the nearby bully target and then go back to locating your intended one.  I do this fairly often when I encounter a undesired large target near my intended (hopefully good) target.

Another word of caution, if you don't keep the coil at a uniform height when moving it while in the PF you won't get reliable audio or visual reporting of location by the detector.

One final note.  A metal detector 'sees' the solid angular extent of a target, not its size.  A deep, extended target may sound (when pinpointing as well as searching) like small pointlike targets such as a coin when using PF.  As an anology, consider an approaching train which you can discern far in the distance.  Looks pretty tiny.  Hint:  don't assume it's going to stay tiny and set up your picnic blanket in the middle of the tracks!!  #3 (and final)

Excellent write-up GB.  The described technique is the one I use regularly.  In pinpoint mode, I locate the center of the target (peak segments and sound) then rotate the coil in place on the ground 90 degrees and finesse the pinpoint readings to peak again.  For coins, a golf ball to baseball diameter plug (depending on target depth and the size of your hand or digger) is all that is required.  A word of caution, if you haven't reinforced your coil ears, be careful when rotating the 90 degrees on the ground so you don't twist so hard that you risk breaking a coil ear(s).

[CPT_GhostLight]

3 hours ago, Mr Swing king said:

Thanks for all the tips guys, been trying some of them for the last few hunts. Still having trouble on the tiny targets. Equinox will find everything great, center great in pinpoint, then can't find it with my pulsedive. 

 

By the way, Im still thinking some of my issue with sizing objects is a volume issue. I'm running the equinox headphones about 2 steps down from Max if quiet environment, equinox volume at 18. Everything still sounds big and loud.

 

How do you guys set up the volume?

I've noticed my F-Pulse (PI) pinpointer struggles with hitting the tiniest targets, but my Profind 35 (VLF) hits them, so it may be an issue with pulse induction. If I'm going after tiny targets, I carry the VLF pinpointer and for everything else I'll use the PI pinpointer for more depth. We just can't have everything in one machine, can we. 😁

As for volume on the detector, I run mine about 22 and adust the headphone volume to whatever is comfortable for my ears.

 

[Mr Swing king]

Ok, thanks guys, I'll m going to keep messing with this detuning untill I get it to work for me. Next up I need to work on the wriggle method, as I think it will help with something I think I figured out about why minelab added 4khz

[FloridaSon]

Take one of your silvers and place it on clean ground you have checked for targets. Sweep the coil and when you hear the silver coin, press pinpoint as usual. Now sweep carefully back and forth until the sound is loudest and the LCD screen shows it is centered. It will be in the center of the coil of course. If you now sweep back and forth, the sound will be short when you sweep the center of the coil over the target. Then sweep 90 degrees, the sound is still short.

You can bury the coin and do this as well. Now take a nail, spike or chain and repeat. You should be able to hear the tone as you sweep over the short dimension. Then if you sweep 90 degrees the sound should be ‘longer’ as you sweep over the long dimension of the chain/spike/nail.

Finally as suggested above, after you pinpoint lift the point straight up and move it. The theory is if it is light aluminum the sound will lesson compared to the sound of a good solid ‘coin size’ target.

I dug 4 pull tabs that rang 12 at the beach in Beach 2. The fifth ‘12’ I almost did not dig. It was an old hand carved detailed ring that was a mix of gold and brass/copper. So you never know. 

This helped me so maybe it will help. 

Happy Hunting