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Deus 2, Nokta Multi, Equinox 1000, All In 2022!


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8 hours ago, abenson said:

Yea I think NM made a big mistake offering the Simplex with all its features at such a low price. I've seen it cannibalize its upper end models since it's release.

I never thought of N/M as being a victim of the Simplex's success, but I suppose that's possible. Or, maybe it was a calculated move, with the Simplex serving as a "loss leader." While I may not be as "hardcore" as some metal detectorists, I think I'm more into the hobby than a casual user. And the Simplex definitely increased the brand awareness of N/M for me.

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Yes it did, but also people were offloading detectors like Racer 2's and so on and just buying a Simplex.  When I was buying my Simplex a guy was selling his Racer 2 with 2 coils for $100 less than a Simplex as he wanted to "upgrade" to a Simplex, I was tempted to buy it instead as it supports Nel coils 🙂

Although I think they priced the Simplex in the right price range where it needed to be to compete with the new offerings like the Vanquish and now Apex and even First Texas come to the party with their F19 derived paint job the Bounty Hunter Time Ranger Pro, other detectors on the market that have similar features and performance to these new entry level type detectors especially from FT are just priced too high.  We've largely got the company you'd least expect for this change in market direction to thank for it, so thanks Minelab for lowing the price of performance 🙂

In the next year or two most single frequency machines should end up in the entry level category, or discontinued as we start to see the new breed of detectors as who's going to be in the market for one other than the odd Gold prospecting VLF where single frequency is still viable.  XP may even keep the original Deus and use it as a cheaper model to compete in a different market to the Deus 2.

There will be those that like to hold on and justify how good their single frequency detector is and how they love the brand it came from and so on.... admirable of course but times and changing, and they're also not putting money into the bank of the manufacturers as they've settled on their machine.... for the past 15 years.

Having 20 or so models from a brand now is getting to be ridiculous when there are detectors on the market like the Equinox that can virtually do it all, it just highlights how bad the brands that have a model for every day of a the month really are behind.

The Simplex was something Nokta needed to do, it reached many users hands and took some of the entry level market they'd otherwise not have and it's surprising how many users that would in the past just buy higher end are now also owning a Vanquish, Apex or Simplex... the same people didn't blink at buying a Go-Find or early Ace series detector.  It would have also been their best selling detector ever, I'm very sure of that and they're in the market to sell detectors.

The brands of old are fading away and now the focus will be on these multi frequency detectors, although I wasn't seeing much action in the forum on the single frequency detectors historical areas prior to all these new ones.

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1 hour ago, phrunt said:

The brands of old are fading away and now the focus will be on these multi frequency detectors, although I wasn't seeing much action in the forum on the single frequency detectors historical areas prior to all these new ones.

This was supposed to happen in the 90s, but it’s finally happening now. Those who don’t make a competitive SMF with selectable options will find themselves irrelevant really quick. I’ve been of this mindset for years. Right now, all my metal detectors aside from Simplex are SMF. The only reason I have a Simplex is that to me it’s too good a bargain not to have around. 
 

The question now is what comes next. I think the answer is Truncated Half-Sine, something Tarsacci appears to have under the hood (and continues to work on a better all arounder), Minelab has been working on for years (according to their patents), and which Garrett now owns a patent on. A couple years from now we may find ourselves excited all over again as the industry transitions to Half Sine, even simultaneous or sequential multi half sine if there is such a thing. Half Sine seems to be the bridge or connecting tissue we need between VLF discrimination, and Pulse induction depth/ground handling until someone develops sufficient PI disc algorithms and circuits. Basically a hybrid of VLF and Pulse. I just wonder who will be the first to break through on a true all arounder to start this game all over again. 

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8 hours ago, phrunt said:

other detectors on the market that have similar features and performance to these new entry level type detectors especially from FT are just priced too high.

Absolutely, especially the Garrett AT Pro and AT Max! It's not that either are bad machines, but for what Garrett wants to sell them for...they turn into bad machines.

I spent $290 for my AT Max and I like it. We'll see how it stands up to an Equinox 600, but for $290, it's a great machine! But if I had to pay $590 or $690 for it, I'd be bashing the AT Max like it's nobody'a business.

So I think Garrett made a mistake keeping their pricing scheme such that the AT Max was a "flagship" detector. I don't think it would have been that bad for Garrett to have their Ace 400 or 300 as their new "entry level" model and significantly lower the price of the AT Max.

I understand premium pricing is a thing, but there's only so far that can go, in my opinion, especially when it relies in maintaining marketing efforts that, from what I've heard and seen on Youtube, might not be holding up as well anymore.

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Ya know that more of think about these new SMF metal detectors coming out the more I think what's the point of getting yet another metal detector. How much better can they really be than what's already on the market? Especially the Equinox. Don't get me wrong I'm excited to see what each will do and I've already pretty much committed to getting the Deus 2 unless the price is too high.

Ok so we already know that there's no perfect detector. Some have features that others don't and vica verse. But as far as performance goes, just how much better can we expect over the Equinox? Short of a PI the Equinox is by far the deepest in my mineralized soil. In mild soil the depth for most detectors is pretty close. How much better can the target ID get than say the Equinox, etrac/CTX or a V3i? Now granted the Deus is a very fast machine but so are the Nokta Makro machines. More so than the Equinox. But set up correctly the Equinox is no slouch. So how much faster at target separation can we expect without sacrificing depth.

I've done countless comparisons between practically every detector available in real life situations. Truth be known 90% of all the targets we seek can be found with most modern detectors in normal non specialized sites. By specialized I mean saltwater beaches, prospecting or very high mineralization.

So I ask again what's the point of getting yet another metal detector that might be say 1% better than what's already available?

I guess it's like a new car. The 10 year old one will get you from point A to point B just as good as a new one. But it sure is nice driving a new car with all the modern bells, whistles and a new warranty.

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6 hours ago, abenson said:

Ya know that more of think about these new SMF metal detectors coming out the more I think what's the point of getting yet another metal detector. How much better can they really be than what's already on the market? Especially the Equinox. Don't get me wrong I'm excited to see what each will do and I've already pretty much committed to getting the Deus 2 unless the price is too high.

Ok so we already know that there's no perfect detector. Some have features that others don't and vica verse. But as far as performance goes, just how much better can we expect over the Equinox? Short of a PI the Equinox is by far the deepest in my mineralized soil. In mild soil the depth for most detectors is pretty close. How much better can the target ID get than say the Equinox, etrac/CTX or a V3i? Now granted the Deus is a very fast machine but so are the Nokta Makro machines. More so than the Equinox. But set up correctly the Equinox is no slouch. So how much faster at target separation can we expect without sacrificing depth.

I've done countless comparisons between practically every detector available in real life situations. Truth be known 90% of all the targets we seek can be found with most modern detectors in normal non specialized sites. By specialized I mean saltwater beaches, prospecting or very high mineralization.

So I ask again what's the point of getting yet another metal detector that might be say 1% better than what's already available?

I guess it's like a new car. The 10 year old one will get you from point A to point B just as good as a new one. But it sure is nice driving a new car with all the modern bells, whistles and a new warranty.

I guess it’s the hope that for those of us who are really passionate about metal detecting a new detector will give us a few more finds from our already pounded sites.  And let’s face it:  it’s not the detectors holding us back, it’s access to new sites that have had very little to zero activity being detected.  Like you mentioned above, I could take my nox to a virgin site and be pretty confident that after hitting it a few times that I have gotten 99% of any good finds out of it.  

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7 hours ago, abenson said:

Ya know that more of think about these new SMF metal detectors coming out the more I think what's the point of getting yet another metal detector. How much better can they really be than what's already on the market?

There's so much room for improvement, it's not even funny.

How about a detector that can tell the difference between gold alloy and aluminum? 

How about a machine that goes deeper and is as accurate with its VDIs in the ground as it is in air tests?

How about a GPX or similar machine that weighs less than 3 pounds and runs off of just 4 AA batteries, yet gives hundreds of hours of run time?

How about an Equinox or Vanquish that doesn't get fooled by medium sized pieces of rusted iron?

How about a machine that has the ability to go deep and cut through mineralization like PI, but has the discriminating ability of an Equinox and weighs less than 2 pounds?

How about wireless technology that can go through water?

Ok, so some of the above developments are probably decades away, but there's PLENTY of opportunities for machines to get better. Until someone sells X-ray glasses that lets you see through dirt like it's pure water, there will always be a place for a new and better machine.

"You musn't be afraid to dream a little bigger darling."

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1 hour ago, mh9162013 said:

There's so much room for improvement, it's not even funny.

How about a detector that can tell the difference between gold alloy and aluminum? 

How about a machine that goes deeper and is as accurate with its VDIs in the ground as it is in air tests?

How about a GPX or similar machine that weighs less than 3 pounds and runs off of just 4 AA batteries, yet gives hundreds of hours of run time?

How about an Equinox or Vanquish that doesn't get fooled by medium sized pieces of rusted iron?

How about a machine that has the ability to go deep and cut through mineralization like PI, but has the discriminating ability of an Equinox and weighs less than 2 pounds?

How about wireless technology that can go through water?

Ok, so some of the above developments are probably decades away, but there's PLENTY of opportunities for machines to get better. Until someone sells X-ray glasses that lets you see through dirt like it's pure water, there will always be a place for a new and better machine.

"You musn't be afraid to dream a little bigger darling."

Like you said most of these improvements are decades away. I'm specifically talking about the 2 new SMF machines about to be released. I'm certainly not afraid to dream. In fact totally the opposite.

I could be wrong but seems like most companies are simply playing catch up and follow the leader. We will find out later today just how innovative XP really is. Will it trump the Equinox? I hope so!!!

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4 minutes ago, abenson said:

Like you said most of these improvements are decades away. I'm specifically talking about the 2 new SMF machines about to be released. I'm certainly not afraid to dream. In fact totally the opposite.

I could be wrong but seems like most companies are simply playing catch up and follow the leader. We will find out later today just how innovative XP really is. Will it trump the Equinox? I hope so!!!

I hear ya.

By reading b/w the lines, I think N/M's SMF machine will perform about the same as an Equinox...maybe not quite as good, but close. But like others have mentioned, it'll have a few doodads that the Equinoxes don't have...along with a better build quality.

I think XP's Deus II will perform better than the Equinox in at least a few respects, including improved performance in heavy iron.

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