GB_Amateur Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Chase Goldman said: It is really inaccurate to portray George as being wronged or WW as producing inferior product. Let's break these into two pieces: 1) I'm not familiar with any of the details of the Lesche family split and will avoid taking sides on that particular issue in the future. 2) You can compare side-by-side some of the products in common between the WW brand and the Predator brand. There are differences and, IMO, Predator comes out on top in the couple cases I've investigated. Besides the WW Sampson vs. the Predator Ultra Eagle (similar but not identical products) another example is the sheeth that comes with the classic and ultra-popular hand digger. The Predator sheeth has rivets at the top where the digger enters the sheeth. The WW does not. I've worn out a WW sheeth at this vulnerable location. (Full disclosure -- I actually use the Treasure Wise sheeth which is sturdy leather -- with rivets!) Honoring warranties may be considered admirable, but OTOH it should be expected as SOP for every company. The fact that we've (myself included) become overly appreciative of such is another unfortunate result of the deterioration of company integrity that has been evident over the past 40 years. I prefer a company that both offers and honors a warranty, but also designs and builds products that are of such quality that the warranty isn't needed. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Goldman Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 I don't use Lesche sheaths or hand diggers but for the heavy duty shovels of both brands that I use (the Sampson is like a beach toy comparatively - regardless Simon's still should not have broken) both the Predator Tools Pirhana and the WW Heavy Duty D-handled shovel I own are top notch tools and, like I said, have been to hell and back for the past 4 years, and both are still going strong. No complaints with either company. Anyway that's been my experience. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phrunt Posted November 1, 2021 Author Share Posted November 1, 2021 Maybe build quality has diminished over the years, with yours being 4+ years old and mine far more recent perhaps the move from hardened thick steel tube to recycled baked bean cans is more recent. Quality on a lot of things has dropped over the years, profits above quality is not unusual unfortunately. I've far more confidence in the Aussie made one, it's likely to be tough and if not at least warranty is easier. I treat my Davsgold prospecting pick like it's a Hitachi 800 tonne excavator lifting up rocks that are suctioned down with it that weigh more than I do. It's spent its life smashing up rock and it looks as good as new except the paint on the handle has worn off 🙂 While I don't expect that from a shovel, it'd be nice if it could handle digging soil, you know, what a shovel is designed to do especially when $7 camping shovels made in China from the hardware shop do the job just fine for years and are generally what I end up using instead as I've far more confidence in them, old pinky lasted for about 10 years of gardening and a couple of years of detecting before it broke, it's plastic turned from pink to near white it was getting so old, stored outside up against a fence most of it's life. They've just got too big of a blade and leave messier plugs. One failure I can understand, two failures with such small hours on both of them is beyond a joke. I'd put both at under 100 plugs combined and if you knew how soft our soil in the areas I'm using it is you'd think it's as crazy as I do. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryC/Oregon Coast Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 Maybe you can cut the sides down on the "China" model that has withstood the abuse. Make the blade a bit narrower for plugging. GaryC/Oregon Coast 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phrunt Posted November 1, 2021 Author Share Posted November 1, 2021 1 minute ago, GaryC/Oregon Coast said: Maybe you can cut the sides down on the "China" model that has withstood the abuse. Make the blade a bit narrower for plugging. GaryC/Oregon Coast I'm not metal worker but I do have an angle grinder, I could give it a shot, thanks for the idea. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geof_junk Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 5 hours ago, GaryC/Oregon Coast said: Maybe you can cut the sides down on the "China" model that has withstood the abuse. Make the blade a bit narrower for plugging. GaryC/Oregon Coast That is what I did when I started to do churches and needed a smaller plug it work well. I got another tool it was blue and know what I did it did not break but It did get lost. Most tools that need a bit of force like crowbars tend to bend when I put them under strain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Goldman Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 10 hours ago, phrunt said: Maybe build quality has diminished over the years, with yours being 4+ years old and mine far more recent perhaps the move from hardened thick steel tube to recycled baked bean cans is more recent. Could be - all I know is that the quality issues were not precipitated by whatever family drama resulted in the split because for a time afterwards at least the companies were both putting out quality product. That is indeed some low quality product they sent to you, no question. Not sure if the issue was the quality of the workmanship (I include using the wrong thickness material in that) or the company intentionally cutting corners, or making due with a bad batch of material. Whatever it is, two dots do make a straight line and for you that points right to poor quality no matter how you slice it, Simon. I recommend you still hold them accountable for honoring their warranty (yet again), regardless of whether you intend to use their product going forward. Don’t let them off easy or they will think they can continue to lean on their old reputation while lowering standards, if that indeed is what is going on. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Slick Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 It's sad to hear that the quality isn't what it used to be. I've had mine for about 8 years plus or minus a couple and it has dug 1000's of holes and pried just as many rocks in rock hard Arizona dirt. I've had to sharpen it a few times but I'd have to say its been one of my top detecting tools in 45 years of detecting. I hope to hear of a good replacement in case I ever need one, but I'm thinking mine might out last me.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mh9162013 Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 My Sampson T-handle shovel has always been a great tool for me. I got it about 2 or 3 years ago, and it's held up well to moderate abuse. This includes using it as a prybar to pop some smaller roots or using the shovel's tip to sever smaller-sized roots. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneguy Posted November 1, 2021 Share Posted November 1, 2021 35 minutes ago, mh9162013 said: My Sampson T-handle shovel has always been a great tool for me. I got it about 2 or 3 years ago, and it's held up well to moderate abuse. This includes using it as a prybar to pop some smaller roots or using the shovel's tip to sever smaller-sized roots. I was kinda shocked to see any complaints about Sampson shovels? Like the above....My 31" ball handle Sampson has served me VERY well back in my coin shooting days which ended after I switched to gold 4 yrs ago. This day and age tho, I guess it too really doesn't surprise me all that much. Mine has been a warhorse and bought maybe 8 years ago? Sorry you got a bad one phrunt......... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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