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Reasons To Hold Onto Equinox 800 In Light Of Deus 2


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I’m going to go ahead and say something I’ve been thinking, whether it’s right or wrong, it’s something that’s been on my mind. Although there’s a part of me that would like to see a machine be all things for the sake of my own technological benefit, there’s also a part of me that hopes these naked attempts to simply follow and replicate Minelab’s hard work fail. Minelab saw the value in multifrequency 30 years ago and have been plugging away ever since. Multi-IQ and “fast multifrequency” just saw the light of day about 4 years ago. It seems unfair that others can just come in already and reap the benefits. There’s as much a part of me that is rooting for Minelab to remain where they have earned and deserve to be. My hope for other emerging platforms  is that they come up with something innovative enough to call their own and not simply calling multi-IQ something else and repackaging it. 
 

I'm aware of all the devils advocate arguments, that this is how technology moves forward, and how many other instances there are for precedent etc. This is why I feel this way only in part. I know many others feel the same. 
 

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I certainly understand what you are saying, Cipher. There has always existed in business the "let somebody else spend the time and money creating the better mouse trap, then when it's a hit, we'll just copy it" mindset. It's terribly time and money consuming to create a new product and then you don't know if the public will embrace it. Many companies just wait to see what happens, then copy whatever sells. I'm not saying that other detector companies do that, but am I the only one who thinks the Simplex looks a little too much like the Equinox which came out a year earlier? Just saying... 

I too hope that competition breeds innovation, but sometime it does and sometimes it does not.

 

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Is it just me, or are some people nitpicking about the 20 m depth capability because "it might be wired"?  From a curiosity standpoint I understand the question.  But from a performance standpoint, why should you care?

Has XP ever claimed something would work and it didn't, or it did but was over-blown?  If this thing is simultaneous multifrequency (it is) plus works to 20 m water depth (which they say it will), why aren't those in the ocean detecting (and even some in the freshwater detecting) camps throwing wild "can't wait for the release!" parties?

What am I missing here??

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20 meters is a pretty impressive depth, and very few you would think other than specialist diving people would need more than that, for the average water hunter it gives them a massive safety margin they'll not have troubles with their detector when using it in the water.  A few might drown them by forgetting to put the red cap in when they only use it for water hunts but do an unexpected land hunt, then putting the detector away for a few weeks and then ripping it out to do their usual water hunts and forgetting to put the red cap back in.  Things like that may happen to drown it and I'd rather they had a better way than that, something automatic rather than manual for such a hi-tech detector that method seems a bit backwards. 

I wonder if there will be an Orx 2 with multi frequency coming in the future based off the Deus 2. 🙂  All I'd want is the prospecting side of it.

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If this thing is simultaneous multifrequency (it is) plus works to 20 m water depth (which they say it will), why aren't those in the ocean detecting (and even some in the freshwater detecting) camps throwing wild "can't wait for the release!" parties?

Because the SMF Excal is still deeper.  :laugh:  Just kidding. 

To be serious for a moment, I think two things are in play here:  First -XP is not being super explicit about the coil to control box antenna wire configuration and what that practically entails (looks like they provide a custom antenna assembly with clips on both ends to enable easy attachment to slots in the coil on one end and slots in the remote on the other), and Second - People were burned on Equinox waterproof claims, I am sure plenty of folks are taking wait and see approach regarding the water depth claims.

 

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why aren't those in the ocean detecting (and even some in the freshwater detecting) camps throwing wild "can't wait for the release!" parties?

Just to add to what Chase already mentioned, I think another reason is the overall design of the Deus II and how, in my opinion, it doesn't look "dive rated" waterproof.

There's a reason Ikelite camera housings look alien and often cost more than the cameras (and lenses!) they house. Real waterproofing is hard to reliably accomplish and requires a special level of engineering and design. Just think about how different the Sovereigns and Exacaliburs look from each other...

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I'd rather they had a better way than that, something automatic rather than manual for such a hi-tech detector that method seems a bit backwards. 

The "automatic" one-way relief valve Equinox uses may be one of the contributing factors to the Equinox water integrity issues.  This seems to be a more robust approach even though it requires the user to manage it.  They made the dive plug red so it is something a diver can quickly check before they get in the water.  Forgetfulness on dive equipment configuration is not a trait that bodes well for a serious dive enthusiast/dive detectorist.  I would imagine they would simply add this to the checklist of things you want to make sure are up to snuff before you put yourself and your equipment in deep water.

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I have to disagree with that. Business is about market share, and Equinox took XP market share. Deus 2 is clearly a response to that, targeting Equinox ergo and water intrusion issues while bring multi to the table. Selling to the party faithful is nice, but competition is about competing with competitors! XP will probably bring some Equinox owners that abandoned the original Deus back into the fold. For the new buyer wanting “the best” there will be a perception that Deus 2 is just that, simply based on the higher price. People do think like that. And despite a few weirdos like me, it’s very obvious the vast majority consider wireless coils to be a good thing, as evidenced by XP pounding on that in their marketing. It’s their exclusive “edge.” The Deus 2, whether or not it matches or exceeds Equinox performance, exudes technological superiority. And I’m not betting against the performance aspect.

This thread is about staying with Equinox (and I am!), but I think the Deus 2 is a brilliant competitive move, and Equinox sales are all but assured to take a hit, and some Equinox owners to jump ship.

I hear you but remember the quote you extracted was regarding "existing" Equinox users - not future Equinox users.  I still don't think D2 is compelling to the majority of existing Equinox users because of its high price point and because the most compelling aspect is its purported better waterproof design (to be seen).  The fact is, the percentage of Equinox users who actually dunk their detectors must be small because despite the number of reported water intrusion failures, ML apparently does not have a mutiny on its hands as it has been able to quietly address the issue through honoring the warranty.  Regarding performance - until we have some real world operator feedback, I am thinking SMF on the D2 can only equal Equinox at best (could be wrong on that - the combo of the Deus I performance in iron plus multi F could potentially eclipse Equinox).  Why would I pay an additional $1500 IF I already have that capability in hand? The few enthusiasts who would buy the D2 despite themselves and the fact they already own an Equinox could probably be counted on two hands and two feet and they all probably subscribe to this forum and likely already own a Deus.  :smile:

However, future sales is a different ballgame and yes, I believe that D2 will take a big bite out of FUTURE Equinox sales (or replacement sales associated with users whose Equinox has either failed or is simply out of warranty) and many existing Deus fans will likely spring for D2 and I think that is where XP is hanging their hat from a business and market share perspective - at least until ML comes out with an Equinox successor or Nokta really, really surprises us.

So while I definitely think that future potential Equinox buyers will gIve D2 serious consideration as an alternative and the dual Deus/Equinox users, those needing a lighter detecting, and water hunters will likely "jump ship" from Equinox (I plan on keeping my Equinox and Deus FOR NOW even though I will get a D2) - we'll see how many of the "casual majority" of Equinox users take the D2 plunge.  Will be interesting.

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I agree Hugh, I never said they would get a majority of existing Equinox users back. My argument is simple - XP is responding to Equinox with Deus 2, including winning some existing owners, by specifically targeting weaknesses in the existing Equinox platform. That will win them back some existing Equinox owners, and I say that is by intent. The only thing to be seen is how many, but it sure won’t be zero.

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I see it this way... XP makes a better built product. Stronger shaft, coil ears, arm cuff, etc. Better warranty 5 years vs 3... The only place my equinox did better over my deus was the wet sand beaches.  I feel the deus is lighter, better balanced and actually less prone to emi over equinox.   So with that said, I sold my equinox and 2 other detectors and will be trading in my deus for the deus II.  I live just a few miles from the gulf beaches , I like simultaneous multi-frequency and fully expect XP to put out a fantastic detector.   New waterproof headphones, different ways to use the deus like using ws6 puck as the display and pairing wsa II headphones with the ws6 as a cheaper alternative.  I'm hoping they use the 9.5x5 coil mold for a new black FMF coil. 

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