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Reliable Test For Comparing Target Separation Capabilities?


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19 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

That's a great design (and you have considerable mechanical drawing skills -- I'm impressed!).    A couple years ago I built an in-ground double barrel shotgun style test setup using PVC pipe with wooden pistons for holding tagets.  I can use those pistons for this and I probably already have plenty of the small pipe in my garage.  I just need to buy the large pipe and maybe a hole saw to drill the holes.  I'm on it!  (Do I owe you a design fee?  😄)

Although the edge effects will not give quite the full 3-d ground coverage of the real world, results from this setup are going to quite informative.  Thanks!

 

No charge, LOL! It's not my design. I saw a UK video of a detectorist who made a depth test something like this out of 50 gallon drum. I just made a quick and dirty model to illustrate the concept for 3D separation testing rather than try to describe it. 😎

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8 hours ago, Chase Goldman said:

I'll bite - besides replaceable batteries, what else do you see is an advantage of the Max over the Nox?

Better waterproofing

S-Shaft design

Looks better...looks A LOT better

The 5x8 coil (makes the detector look perfectly proportional and from what everyone says, makes it very ergonomic)

Aftermarket coil selection (especially The Arrow by Detech)

Simpler settings (this is a double-edged sword, of course, as fewer settings mean it's harder to "dial in" your machine for different conditions)

Garrett's legendary customer service. I hear that Minelab's can be good too, but there are more negative reports about Minelab on than Garrett.

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"What's the better detector for the masses?"

"What's the better detector for a seasoned expert?"

"What's the better detector for a specific individual?"

Determining the answer to each of these questions doesn't necessarily lead to a unanimous conclusion.  In the case of specific individual, is the question about today or in the future?  (Here you can quote Yogi Berra, whether or not he really said this:  “'It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future'”  :laugh:)

 

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3 hours ago, mh9162013 said:

Better waterproofing

S-Shaft design

Looks better...looks A LOT better

The 5x8 coil (makes the detector look perfectly proportional and from what everyone says, makes it very ergonomic)

Aftermarket coil selection (especially The Arrow by Detech)

Simpler settings (this is a double-edged sword, of course, as fewer settings mean it's harder to "dial in" your machine for different conditions)

Garrett's legendary customer service. I hear that Minelab's can be good too, but there are more negative reports about Minelab on than Garrett.

Just my take on what you mentioned for what it's worth - not trying to win an argument or anything but thought I would respond.  I know none of this is going to change your mind.   I just thought is was interesting that you previously said, the Equinox appeared to perform better but it was not just good enough to be better overall, it was also important to know "how much better" - so I wanted to see what was prompting that statement.  Other than coil selection and waterproofness, was not seeing much on the list that would sway me back to a lesser performing detecting platform. 

Re waterproofing:  I didn't know you were a water hunter.  Fresh or salt?  Better waterproofing is great unless the detector can't do what you need it to and the Max tends to false out in salt being high gain and single frequency.

Re S-shaft: I like the APEX Design and S-Shaft (great control module design) but the balance of the AT series did a number on my wrist with that large, retro control module just sitting there like I am trying to swing a side-view mirror around.  Not really ergonomic.  Nox has different issues, but an S shaft would have been a nice option.

Re looks: Something to be said for looks but Max "looking better" is definitely in the eye of the beholder.  Lol.

Re smaller coil:  I noticed you mentioned the Equinox 6-inch round accessory coil but you have never mentioned the Coiltek Nox 10x5 coil.  I have owned both and the 10x5 is the accessory coil Equinox users should not have been made to wait 3 years for. It is a great coil and, yes, improves the Nox looks as well. Lol.

Aftermarket Coil Selection:  No argument there. Coil selection for the Nox is disappointing (but at least we have that 10x5 now).  Would be a great "bake off" competitor to the 8x5 you speak so fondly of.

Simpler Settings:  OK, again, somewhat debatable - Equinox 800 is one of the few mid to high end detectors I have used where the default settings seem to be right where I need them to be making it a true grab n go.  Equinox 600 is even more straight forward with fewer adjustment choices.  Really shouldn't have to tweak settings much at all after you get it set up for your typical situations just switch modes, GB, noise cancel, adjust sensitivity as necessary.  I have found the navigation to be pretty intuitive too.  My only gripe is the inability to go back and forth in the menus.  I guess ML considered that there were few enough settings it was good enough to just enable cycling through the settings in one direction.  I disagree.  On the AT I owned, I really struggled with settings navigation.  It seemed less intuitive and there are some quirks to things like iron volume and tone settings that vary depending on where you set the ferrous breakpoint.  Weird.

Customer Service:  I agree that Garrett's customer service is top notch.  Having dealt with both companies over the past year or two on non-warranty repair issues - they both provided great customer service in terms of accessibility, communication, and turnaround time.

Thanks for responding back with your points.  Great dialog.

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Just my take on what you mentioned for what it's worth - not trying to win an argument or anything but thought I would respond.  I know none of this is going to change your mind.   I just thought is was interesting that you previously said, the Equinox appeared to perform better but it was not just good enough to be better overall, it was also important to know "how much better" - so I wanted to see what was prompting that statement.  Other than coil selection and waterproofness, was not seeing much on the list that would sway me back to a lesser performing detecting platform. 

Re waterproofing:  I didn't know you were a water hunter.  Fresh or salt?  Better waterproofing is great unless the detector can't do what you need it to and the Max tends to false out in salt being high gain and single frequency.

Re S-shaft: I like the APEX Design and S-Shaft (great control module design) but the balance of the AT series did a number on my wrist with that large, retro control module just sitting there like I am trying to swing a side-view mirror around.  Not really ergonomic.  Nox has different issues, but an S shaft would have been a nice option.

Re looks: Something to be said for looks but Max "looking better" is definitely in the eye of the beholder.  Lol.

Re smaller coil:  I noticed you mentioned the Equinox 6-inch round accessory coil but you have never mentioned the Coiltek Nox 10x5 coil.  I have owned both and the 10x5 is the accessory coil Equinox users should not have been made to wait 3 years for. It is a great coil and, yes, improves the Nox looks as well. Lol.

Aftermarket Coil Selection:  No argument there. Coil selection for the Nox is disappointing (but at least we have that 10x5 now).  Would be a great "bake off" competitor to the 8x5 you speak so fondly of.

Simpler Settings:  OK, again, somewhat debatable - Equinox 800 is one of the few mid to high end detectors I have used where the default settings seem to be right where I need them to be making it a true grab n go.  Equinox 600 is even more straight forward with fewer adjustment choices.  Really shouldn't have to tweak settings much at all after you get it set up for your typical situations just switch modes, GB, noise cancel, adjust sensitivity as necessary.  I have found the navigation to be pretty intuitive too.  My only gripe is the inability to go back and forth in the menus.  I guess ML considered that there were few enough settings it was good enough to just enable cycling through the settings in one direction.  I disagree.  On the AT I owned, I really struggled with settings navigation.  It seemed less intuitive and there are some quirks to things like iron volume and tone settings that vary depending on where you set the ferrous breakpoint.  Weird.

Customer Service:  I agree that Garrett's customer service is top notch.  Having dealt with both companies over the past year or two on non-warranty repair issues - they both provided great customer service in terms of accessibility, communication, and turnaround time.

Thanks for responding back with your points.  Great dialog.

I agree, this is a great dialog. I prepared a longer response to your comment, but for some reason I lost it. But the biggest point I wanted to make is that I don't regualrly water hunt, but I want a machine that would allow me to, as hunting a freshwater late or river/stream is something I'd like to try. Also, I know the AT Max CAN hunt saltwater beaches, although I know it's not ideal and will have limited depth capabilities.

I also don't mind hunting in heavy rains...like thick downpours that make it necessary to have a windshield wiper on the front of the detector. I have faith the AT Max can handle this. I also occassionally clean my metal detectors and I like trusting the waterpoofing enough to know I can take the control box/pod and washing it in a sink.

The AT Max is a bit nose heavy with the stock coil, I'll admit. But I would remedy this with the 5x8 coil assuming I kept the AT Max and not the Equinox.

Ideally, I'd have the Equinox's capabilities in the AT Max's form factor. I know, I'm probably the only person in the world that wishes for something like this...

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