Identifying A Detector

[Joe D.]

Thank's Simon,

   That's great info, and a warnings for anyone, about counterfeits! Name brand or not! I'm sure it adds to the cost of what we all pay for the genuine machines, as the companies have to constantly spend to fight this at every turn!!👍👍

[mh9162013]

 

It's a popular seller at Jaycar too, people are getting ripped off all the time buying it, a number of them end up second hand on our online marketplace with people trying to redeem their money.

This is a very common occurrence here in the US, with many people spending $100-$200 on what they think is a quality detector, then getting quickly frustrated with it and selling it (or at least trying to sell it) in online market places.

[kac]

Welcome to the forum.

Best way to learn is to use it no matter what machine. If it works then you can learn from it and develop your skills that will most likely lead you to spending gobs more money on more machines as more bells and whistles come out. This is when the hobby becomes an obsession and you will soon be abandoned by many of your closest relatives and friends as you poke around parks and dig up dirty cruddy coins and bits of junk.

All kidding aside, power it up, practice keeping your swing steady and flat and close to the ground. Pay attention to the numbers on targets that you dig and you will soon learn what is good and what is bad. Pay attention to the sounds and numbers.

By the looks of it the machine has auto ground balance so it should be an easy one to start out with. If the machine is sounds off for no real reason then it could be emi (electrical magnetic interference) and many causes are wifi, transformers, cell towers etc. so you may have to drop the sensitivity.

[mcjtom]

Hello,

Many thanks to all!

I went out to see what this "Mental Detector" does, trying to learn.  I took 4 modern baht coins, of different sizes made from different alloys:

2008 (RAMA IX) / 2018 (RAMA X)	VDI
1 Baht - Nickel-plated steel (3g/20mm)	0
2 Baht - Aluminum bronze (4g/21.75mm)	20-30
5 Baht - Nickel-plated Copper (6g/24mm)	70-80
10 Baht - Cupronickel / Aluminum Bronze (8.5g/26mm)	19-25

I put the coins on the surface of what I thought was a relatively clean area.  The 'thing' does, at the very least, detects metals and seems to discriminate between them the way that makes some sense to me given the alloys. 

An unexpected (at least to me) finding was that the VDI was correlated with the speed of the sweep - faster sweeps consistently corresponded to higher numbers (the scale is from 0 to 100).  Why would that be, I wonder?

I imagine that those ranges of VDI for the same and easy targets like coins on the surface are fairly wide by the standards of other detectors.  Is that correct?  Would better single frequency detectors be able to narrow down those ranges?  I also imagine that multi-frequency detectors would be even better at discrimination?

Many thanks again!

EDIT: I mixed up the VDI in the original table - now it should be what I've seen.

[F350Platinum]

 

Hello,

Many thanks to all!

I went out to see what this "Mental Detector" does, trying to learn.  I took 4 modern baht coins, of different sizes made from different alloys:

2008 (RAMA IX) / 2018 (RAMA X)	VDI
1 Baht - Nickel-plated steel (3g/20mm)	0
2 Baht - Aluminum bronze (4g/21.75mm)	70-80
5 Baht - Nickel-plated Copper (6g/24mm)	20-30
10 Baht - Cupronickel / Aluminum Bronze (8.5g/26mm)	19-25

I put the coins on the surface of what I thought was a relatively clean area.  The 'thing' does, at the very least, detects metals and seems to discriminate between them the way that makes some sense to me given the alloys. 

An unexpected (at least to me) finding was that the VDI was correlated with the speed of the sweep - faster sweeps consistently corresponded to higher numbers (the scale is from 0 to 100).  Why would that be, I wonder?

I imagine that those ranges of VDI for the same and easy targets like coins on the surface are fairly wide by the standards of other detectors.  Is that correct?  Would better single frequency detectors be able to narrow down those ranges?  I also imagine that multi-frequency detectors would be even better at discrimination?

Many thanks again!

 

Gotta say first it's kinda moot to get in a deep or high level discussion about an inexpensive detector, but I understand what you're getting at here.

The faster you sweep, the more inaccurate the results would be. I can always tell I'm swinging too fast with my Equinox, because I will often hear a high tone when passing iron. The Equinox has an extremely fast ability to identify a target but there is a limit. A lot of people turn down this "recovery speed" in order to maximize depth. That's great when you can do it, but in my case most of the areas I search are so iron-laden that I have to slow the swing down and use the highest recovery speed. When I hear a high tone I stop and check again. I use a sweep at an angle (~45-90 degrees) to the target to see if the result is consistent. If it is I dig.

Now to get straight to the point. I knew early on by reading this forum that if I wanted to be more successful I would have to get a better detector than the Ace, particularly one that would "ground balance". My budget constrained me to the following:

Ace Apex - advertised and hyped but not available multi-frequency with ground balance

Nokta Makro Simplex+ - inexpensive but feature packed waterproof Single frequency and ground balance

Minelab Vanquish series - multi frequency with relatively low prices and better features but no ground balance

Minelab Equinox, multi frequency with ground balance and "waterproofing"

I went to a local detector shop (local is an hour and a half drive one way), and the shop owner asked me where I am going to detect most. He knows my area, and immediately told me to "bite the bullet" and get the Equinox 600. It was about $200 more than what I was willing to spend, but I am glad I did because of what I find on almost a daily basis. It was great starting out last December with the machine, and has only improved.

You are entering this hobby at a time of a shift, almost all manufacturers are about to release an SMF (simultaneous multi frequency) detector, from the sublime to the ridiculous price. Depending on where you will be most (and why I suggested you introduce yourself) you will have a choice of new machines next year, and some this year. Here are the companies (the most common, not necessarily in the order) you want to pay attention to, and read up on here:

Garrett for the Apex or its successor

Minelab for the Equinox or its successor

Nokta Makro for the successor of the Simplex+

XP of France for the Deus 2 if you have a big budget.

Or, you can go out right now and get an Apex, Simplex+, or an Equinox. The used market is insane, so forget about it. 😀

Just for the fun of it I watched some videos about metal detecting in Thailand, a country with massive and fascinating but not popular history. I gleaned that pulse induction detectors work better in places there, as targets sink deep due to the conditions. That sort of detector is very expensive.

HTH

[rvpopeye]

I agree with the advise of getting to know your detector by using it. 

You will develop a sense of what it is "telling you" and that sense is the key .

If you find anything of even small value  , The real value is in the knowledge you gain.

As has been mentioned you will most likely eventually decide to upgrade your detector (or just walk away from it all.)...one really good find and I'm sorry to inform you but you WILL be hopelessly addicted ! Just like the rest of us....LOL.

Good luck on your hunts . 

Keep reading the forums.  (there are lots of informative posts already) , start here 

Ask us about anything that confuses you , we'll be glad to help .

 

[Steve Herschbach]

“An unexpected (at least to me) finding was that the VDI was correlated with the speed of the sweep - faster sweeps consistently corresponded to higher numbers (the scale is from 0 to 100).  Why would that be, I wonder?

I imagine that those ranges of VDI for the same and easy targets like coins on the surface are fairly wide by the standards of other detectors.  Is that correct?  Would better single frequency detectors be able to narrow down those ranges?  I also imagine that multi-frequency detectors would be even better at discrimination?”

Sweep speeds are designed to be medium/slow and regular, so count left 1-2-3 count right 1-2-3 like a metronome. Some machines like a little faster, some a little slower, but all aim for kind of a relaxed pace, not a race. Too fast will cost depth.

Targets on surface, as long as sweep is steady and is over target, should have steady, repeatable VDI numbers. This accuracy degrades at depth, and degradation is faster with single frequency than multi. A machine that delivers highly variable numbers numbers with surface targets, would be little more than a crapshoot for targets at depth. To be safe you would want to dig all non-ferrous readings, and even then you will miss good targets.

Even more so than depth, a defining difference between detectors these days is the ability to capture accurate target id information at depth. Anyone can make a metal detector that detects metal with a handful of components worth a few bucks. Designing circuits that deliver both depth and accurate target id, on the other hand, is cutting edge science.

[GB_Amateur]

"The best detector is the one in your hand."  (I don't know whom to credit this quote; maybe a lot of people.)

It appears your detector works.  Go out and find targets (of course in a place you are allowed to detect and dig...).  Dig all!  That's the best way to learn.  Air tests sort of get you in the ballpark as far as what VDI's correspond to which known coins, but as others have said, things change some (maybe a lot) when those same targets are buried in the ground at different depths.

When you locate a target, investigate from different directions, different sweep speeds, different sweep amplitudes (i.e. how long of a sweep).  Then dig and try and make a mental correlation between what the detector was telling you and what you eventually recovered.  Don't expect anything close to perfect correlation.  I still dig USA 5 cent ('nickel') signals coins figuring at best (i.e. when everything is pointing cleanly towards the target being a USA nickel) I'm about 50% to actually find that coin in the hole.

After minimum of a couple hundred hours doing this you'll be in better position to decide if this is a hobby you want to invest more money into.  What you learn will carry over to the future if you decide to stick with this (for most of us) fascinating and enjoyable pasttime.

[Steve Herschbach]

 

Sounds like he lives in Thailand.  (Is this Quick Shooter MD3030 a known scam?)  Eventually the Far Eastern manufacturers (China particularly) are going to make good detectors if their foray into other areas of manufacturing over the past 40 years is any indication.  Quest is already scratching the surface according to several reviewers.  There is a difference between the counterfeiters/pirates who are at the pinnacle of dishonesty and just want to get the consumer's money while delivering a Trojan Horse product compared to more/less legitimate manufacturers.

But I get your suspicious nature on this subject as we've seen con artists for a few years and the number seems to be growing.  Phrunt(Simon) is regularly posting warnings about what he sees in NZ online markets. 

I personaly hope mcjtom got a legitimate detector....

You are implying I’m smearing good actors with a bad brush. I’m not much for giving the benefit of the doubt in this industry for very good reason. Buy from who you want, but I advise anyone to have a “suspicious nature” when dealing with metal detectors, and especially “treasure hunting” devices. Frankly, it’s hard enough to not get sold a bill of goods from the so-called legitimate operators, touting last years tech as new and improved because it has a new decal and a paint job. If you are wise in this industry, you learn very fast that trust is earned, not given. I may be a slow learner, but I’m old enough to have learned a few things anyway about metal detector companies and the industry as a whole. Am I going to build a legal case for you? No. I’ve got better things to do with my time. And as I said also, I hope the poster got an ok detector. How ok just depends how low the bar is, and whether you think it’s ok to use a detector you’d personally toss in the corner after an hour or two.

[mcjtom]

I wonder what is the physics behind my Mental Detector showing higher VDI (larger phase shifts I gather) for the same conductive target when the sweep speed is higher?