Deus 2 Vs Nokta/Makro Legend

[D&P-OR]

18 hours ago, phrunt said:

Here is the latest Dllek Update or should I say response to the general public about their response to her last video from a few minutes ago for those that don't use Facebook.

I do like XP's marketing method.  When does engaging with the public go from being beneficial to harmful?

I wish she would invest in a hair pin!!!!!!!!!!!

[delnorter]

Wow, I sure hope the Legend is a hit. I don’t think Dllek really helped the situation other than saying the testers will be released from their NDAs soon.

I’m sure there’s a lot of pressure with polishing up the final details of a product before sale, but customer relations is critical. 

Mike

[Steve Herschbach]

On 12/16/2021 at 1:44 PM, Cal_Cobra said:

I fixed that for you, the Legend is also IP68 certified (although to less depth) 😉

Why is this a good thing? Devices backed by an international standard rating of IP68 are deemed fit enough to withstand dust, dirt and sand, and are resistant to submersion up to a maximum depth of 1.5m underwater for up to thirty minutes. That’s it. It’s nothing to brag about, and I have no doubt an Equinox would test out as IP68 also. Thirty minutes people, thirty minutes, and almost everyone exceeds that.

An IP68 rating basically means a wading detector. Now, any manufacturer can warranty above and beyond that for anything they want. The margin of safety above and beyond the official rating, who knows, but there are higher official ratings one could achieve, except these devices do not. Or that’s how they would be officially rated. The manufacturers are simply gambling on certain failure rates, which absolutely will occur, and the number they are willing to cover under warranty.

Everyone really needs to quit making IP68 out like it’s special. It’s not. It’s merely an admission of a minimal level of waterproof integrity, with only whatever the manufacturer adds above and beyond under warranty as having any real meaning.

https://www.enclosurecompany.com/ip-ratings-explained.php

https://www.polycase.com/techtalk/nema-rated-enclosures/ip67-vs-ip68.html

Metal detectors designed for genuine underwater use are generally rated to 200 feet or more! These various IP68 devices are not remotely in the same category.

[phrunt]

Yes, becoming IP68 certified is really a waste of money and all they do it for is to help with marketing, to add that little Logo onto the box to make it look good and mainly for those that don't understand what it really means, I can imagine to a person buying a product off the shelf with little knowledge of what they're buying that little Logo would look quite appealing that it's certified for water use.   I completely understand why Minelab don't bother with it, even with the 200ft (66m) meter depth Excalibur 2 they didn't bother getting an IP certification.  People need to forget about that certification, it means zero!  The manufacturer depths are what you need to take note of, that's how you determine how waterproof it is not that IP rating.  The Deus 2 is a detector designed for water use. 

You'd think people would be familiar with this water proof stuff with watches, it's been going on there for years with watching being water proof or water resistant but not really.  This article on this website is a decent read when it comes to watches and their waterproofing, a bit of an eye opener really.  Not directly linked to detectors and their IP ratings but the article explains difficult situations for a watch which is very similar to using a detector in the water at a beach, especially for those in warm climates where detectors are more likely to leak.  I guess I was very brave leaving my Nox in the bottom of my Spa for 2 days with the water at 36 to 38 degrees celsius (96 to 100f), a nightmare condition for it but it survived. 😛

Further to the chart Steve posted above there are similarities with the watches and waterproof ratings, the author of the article indicates any watch rated for under 200m is not really a watch you'd want to wear much in the water.  That's when a watch becomes a real waterproof watch.

[Steve Herschbach]

18 hours ago, GB_Amateur said:

Has the world always been so negative or is it just the past few years??  Half empty or half full?  "Completely empty" seems to be the reply too often around here.

I don’t agree with that assessment in the slightest. Plenty of positive commentary here where it’s deserved, and also otherwise, but often warranted. I think the folks here are second to none when it comes to calm, intelligent commentary. 

Telling Dilek I find the current approach unappealing is not being negative. It’s valuable feedback that a person in her position should listen to, and be grateful for. She’s in marketing, and when your approach engenders negative feelings, then you’d best pay attention. It does her no service to just make happy noise, if it’s not entirely genuine. I’m her biggest fan, but I’m not a fan of responding to every tiny slight. They have a saying about rolling in the mud with the pigs…..

[Chase Goldman]

14 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

They have a saying about rolling in the mud with the pigs…..

Great minds think alike, eh. 

But getting back to your response to Chuck.  I read his post a little differently.  I felt by negative "world" he was referencing the folks on the internet who were directing general negativity at Nokta and the Legend not the folks here on the forum who were critical of Dilek's response to that negativity.  Just my take FWIW.

[basstrackerman]

I would have to agree Steve.  I was planning on buying the new legend . The company attacking or going after another company turned me off quickly.  Why? Well we don't really like seeing companies bash other companies for 1, and 2 that's similar to how they treated me a few years back when my coils ears broke off the Makro racer coil.  I emailed them, the asked for pics, I sent them pics and their response was your fault no warranty! So we emailed back a time or two then they stopped responding.  So I did what anyone would do, I headed to the forums to let other buyers beware that the coils ears were very brittle and the company would not stand behind it.  After a few days they contacted me again and asked for my address.  Low and behold everyone was having the same issues with broken coil ears. 

[Steve Herschbach]

1 minute ago, Chase Goldman said:

But getting back to your response to Chuck.  I read his post a little differently.  I felt by negative "world" he was referencing the folks on the internet who were directing general negativity at Nokta and the Legend not the folks here on the forum who were critical of Dilek's response to that negativity.  Just my take FWIW.

Could be I read it entirely wrong, and if so, I apologize profusely. 

[GB_Amateur]

OK, I'm getting OT.  True, there is a lot of good to go with the bad.  I'm overly objective (compared to most, anyway).  No apologies for that.  I don't see the Deus 2 vs. Legend (vs. Equinox) discussion as objective.   It's apples to oranges at this point for the Legend since we haven't seen anything objective, yet.  But there are plenty out there who have already signed, sealed, and delivered their conclusions and they've voiced such here.

Here's something I thought of yesterday.  Over the last year and a half (since the Apex was released) we've read oodles of comments about how detector companies won't be able to release anything that can compete with the Equinox on their first release of a multifrequency model.  Should those comments be retracted?  Will they be retracted?  People tend to be loud with predictions and crawl back in their holes when they're wrong.

There is certainly room for opinions here; I'm not arguing that.  But stepping back and reconsidering what one says, and fessing up when those opinions are contradicted with evidence -- that seems like a balanced thing to do as well.

I have no idea how well the Legend will perform.  I'm not drawing as much conclusion on the Deus 2 as others seem to be, either.  I'm making zero predictions as to how the two perform, other than to say "let's give them a chance; there's a broad spectrum of possibilities and we'll know a lot better when they get here."

[Steve Herschbach]

36 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

OK, I'm getting OT.  True, there is a lot of good to go with the bad.  I'm overly objective (compared to most, anyway).  No apologies for that.  I don't see the Deus 2 vs. Legend (vs. Equinox) discussion as objective.   It's apples to oranges at this point for the Legend since we haven't seen anything objective, yet.  But there are plenty out there who have already signed, sealed, and delivered their conclusions and they've voiced such here.

Here's something I thought of yesterday.  Over the last year and a half (since the Apex was released) we've read oodles of comments about how detector companies won't be able to release anything that can compete with the Equinox on their first release of a multifrequency model.  Should those comments be retracted?  Will they be retracted?  People tend to be loud with predictions and crawl back in their holes when they're wrong.

There is certainly room for opinions here; I'm not arguing that.  But stepping back and reconsidering what one says, and fessing up when those opinions are contradicted with evidence -- that seems like a balanced thing to do as well.

I have no idea how well the Legend will perform.  I'm not drawing as much conclusion on the Deus 2 as others seem to be, either.  I'm making zero predictions as to how the two perform, other than to say "let's give them a chance; there's a broad spectrum of possibilities and we'll know a lot better when they get here."

Yeah, but Chuck, I don’t care about the whole “which performs better” thing as much as the “how is it physically designed" thing. Feature sets matter to me as much or more than performance, because I know 1/4” one way or the other simply will not have a major bearing in my detecting. I’m quite confident we are splitting hairs with current technology when it comes to that sort of thing. If depth matters, I’ll use a PI, not a VLF. It’s the battle for second place at best regarding depth.

In other words, I don’t need to use either one to look at both, consider the feature sets, and make an objective opinion about what is best for me.