Deus 2 Vs Nokta/Makro Legend

[Steve Herschbach]

8 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Here's something I thought of yesterday.  Over the last year and a half (since the Apex was released) we've read oodles of comments about how detector companies won't be able to release anything that can compete with the Equinox on their first release of a multifrequency model.  Should those comments be retracted?  Will they be retracted?  People tend to be loud with predictions and crawl back in their holes when they're wrong.

I’ve voiced similar opinions, but you’ve changed it from “probably” to “won’t”. Ones speaking to probabilities, the other an absolute, and mischaracterizes the original statements. Compete means different things also. If a detector had 1% less depth than an Equinox, but twice the waterproof integrity, there would be those who would say that’s fair and needed competition. I frankly liked the Apex, which takes a beating now, because it was sold as an Ace, not a Equinox beater. It fits it’s niche.

[phrunt]

It's too early to know yet.  If any of these detectors have beaten the Nox with their multi frequency implementation not only will people including myself very clearly state if what they thought was wrong but to do that they've got to be using the new detector to know it, far too soon yet to come to any conclusions although Calabash seems very happy with his Deus 2.   There is very little brand loyalty on this forum, if someone finds something better they'll shout it from the hilltops not try and protect the Equinox.

My reasons for selecting the Deus isn't down to performance at this stage, they're down to differences and providing myself something I don't already have, a different detector.  I've bought too many detectors that offer me nothing over what I've already got so buying something vastly different makes sense.  You'll notice I decided against the GPX 6000 for similar reasons, I just didn't need one even though I'd normally be jumping up and down all excited about a super sensitive small gold PI.

I don't know if the Deus 2 will perform better than my CTX, Nox or even my Vanquish for what I want to use it for which is deep silvers but if it doesn't, at least I've got a detector that can do things better than my current lineup, it'll be my first truly waterproof detector, one I can use with confidence in water.  I've not got the marbles to use my CTX in the water, my Nox I know is a gamble, my AT Gold I just wouldn't really want to use in water as it's not the ideal detector for what I'd be using it for.

The Legend will be out before I get a Deus as they're going to be slow getting to NZ so I still have the option of changing my mind at the last minute 🙂

[GB_Amateur]

28 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Yeah, but Chuck, I don’t care about the whole “which performs better” thing as much as the “how is it physically designed" thing. Feature sets matter to me as much or more than performance, because I know 1/4” one way or the other simply will not have a major bearing in my detecting. I’m quite confident we are splitting hairs with current technology when it comes to that sort of thing. If depth matters, I’ll use a PI, not a VLF. It’s the battle for second place at best regarding depth.

In other words, I don’t need to use either one to look at both, and make an objective opinion about what is best for me. 

You've (apparently) looked at the advertised/announced features and made a decision.  That does sound objective to me.

My soapbox complaints may or may not be aimed at certain people or be in reaction to certain posts.  I like the (in most cases unexpressed) axiom "if the shoe fits, wear it."  I think you tried on the shoe I advertised and concluded it didn't fit.  🙂

[Chase Goldman]

24 minutes ago, phrunt said:

My reasons for selecting the Deus isn't down to performance at this stage, they're down to differences and providing myself something I don't already have, a different detector. 

 

28 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

Yeah, but Chuck, I don’t care about the whole “which performs better” thing as much as the “how is it physically designed" thing. Feature sets matter to me as much or more than performance, because I know 1/4” one way or the other simply will not have a major bearing in my detecting. I’m quite confident we are splitting hairs with current technology when it comes to that sort of thing.

Bingo.  Performance is not really a big discriminator for me at this point.  Induction balance technology for metal detecting is basically on a performance plateau at this juncture of its technological evolution with only incremental movement in the performance metrics that matter: depth, recovery speed, and ID accuracy at depth across the range of soil conditions.  Yes there are continuing minor innovations on the user interface and coil design, but performance is relatively static. So what matters more at this point is technological and feature set diversity.  That's why I use both a Deus and Nox to scrub a site.  The Deus II promises another degree of diversity in an arguably different approach to SMF/signal processing than the Nox - and, yes, an impressive showing on its first SMF offering that definitely exceeded my modest expectations.  I also have not thrown in the towel on Legend and still have a pre-order in place on the off chance that there is some niche secret sauce capability under certain extreme site conditions - a worthwhile gamble given its value price point.  I know of no one detector that does it all at this point, though a couple appear to come close. So I anticipate that I will continue to own multiple detectors to cover all the bases. So if that ain't objective - I don't know what is...

[Steve Herschbach]

18 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

You've (apparently) looked at the advertised/announced features and made a decision.  That does sound objective to me.

My soapbox complaints may or may not be aimed at certain people or be in reaction to certain posts.  I like the (in most cases unexpressed) axiom "if the shoe fits, wear it."  I think you tried on the shoe I advertised and concluded it didn't fit.  🙂

 I've never paid attention to other people when it comes to the whole performance thing, as it almost never applies to my ground and targets. 10" dimes? With a PI but not happening with a VLF here. So I look for the specs I want, then get the detector, and I determine for myself how it performs. I've also finally realized VLF is all splitting hairs these days, and see no need to get every new one that comes along just to try it. It is just a waste of time and money. I've been eyeballing the ORX for over a year, but never could quite pull the trigger. This may be silly to some, but Legend vs Deus II for me pretty much boils down to I want the XP S rod, the best in the business. I'm sure the Legend is just fine, but I don't want another under 4 lb straight shaft detector. Nobody ever praised Equinox ergonomics except the weight, and it has a lot to do with being a straight shaft design. I tried a Simplex and was no happier, and for the same reason, so I know I'm not going to love the feel of the Legend on my arm. I've had a couple Deus, and know I will love the Deus II on my arm.

I can find stuff with any of them, so it's on such mundane things now that my decisions often turn. Comfort on my arm, and audio, audio, audio.

[GB_Amateur]

Sincerely glad you guys are looking for something more than performance, and have found it (or may have found it for those still waiting for more reviews).

I'm currently of the viewpoint that improved separation is what will bring me the goodies in previously hunted sites, which is almost every public site in the Continental USA, as far as I can tell.  I always flash back to Tom Dankowski's experiment of, at a particular site (baseball field, I think) doing the best he could with and IB/VLF and then returning with a PI and digging everything it triggered on -- getting four times as many good finds after "hunting it out".

As I continue to learn the ML Eqx, I'm discovering that I improve at finding iffy good targets -- ones I would have passed over previously.  (The Eqx is very good at separation, IMO.)  But I think there is more capability in this IB/VLF technology without having to give up things like TID at depth and actual depth, at least I hope there is.  Maybe one (or both) of these new kids on the block will provide that.  If the findings of more detectorists show this to be the case, I'm sure I'll be making my first significant detector purchase since the Eqx.

[phrunt]

We are becoming spoilt for choice, a few years ago choice was very limited and most settled on an Equinox, now we are like kids in a candy store where we actually have choices! Ahh the wonders of competition, and it's only just begun.  I think we'll see a dramatic change in attitudes of manufacturers over the coming years.  Hopefully competition gets so hot that Minelab can no longer justify locking down their coils and at least assisting some aftermarket manufacturers to step in and produce some coils for the Equinox 1000, if they don't someone else might.

The Apex already has aftermarket coils from multiple manufacturers so that's a very good sign for their AT replacement.  Nokta is a bit iffy at the moment, XP is never going to get any and Minelab I hold hope, the Coiltek's were a start but they're not overly a success except the little coil, the other two were a mistake they should have learnt with the CTX.  They had a fantastic opportunity being supplied with the chips, it's a shame they didn't embrace it and really put some effort in to bring people coils they'd really want.

Now we have Minelab, Garrett, XP and Nokta all competing again, some playing catch up but it means a bright future for detector users.

If only we had this same level of competition with high end prospecting machines, and maybe Nokta may step in there once the Legend has had time to settle in, it would be a wise thing for them to do if they're capable of doing it.

[Jeff McClendon]

Performance is near the top for me......I want as much depth with good target separation and especially good target ID as possible. Most of the places I hunt which are coin and jewelry turf sites require it due to digging restrictions. The Equinox has consistently provided the best results for me at those sites by a wide margin.

I am definitely one of the people who had reservations about whether another metal detector manufacturer could produce SMF technology that could rival that of the Equinox on their first attempt at SMF. It appears that XP at least, has done just that which is fantastic.

I am very delighted to experience how the XP Deus 2 has much improved audio choices, much improved target ID on deeper targets and still maintained its lightening fast speed while running FMF. I can't wait to try one.

Hopefully the Legend will also offer big performance boosts in my area with its much improved audio choices and SMF technology. It already has a history from other models of above average recovery speed and rugged build. I can't wait to try one of those either.

I have never been a good person for marketing or sales. I am much more of a lead by example, one among many kind of person. I try not to judge marketing people too harshly when they appear to be belittling or bashing a competitor. From what I have seen, Minelab, Nokta Makro, Garrett, and the former Whites all display a fairly high level of confidence, arrogance and  one up man ship, that I personally would not tolerate in my own actions. But, they have to sell metal detectors to all sorts of people from different cultures and places.

What I do appreciate is when a manufacturer goes out of their way to ask for suggestions from customers and come through with improvements to their product based on those suggestions. Nokta Makro for sure and Minelab in their own way which is much less direct,  have done just that. Obviously, XP, without any fanfare have been listening too.

Personal attacks on Dilek, judgements about her appearance and cultural mannerisms really turn me off a lot more than her marketing strategies, which are her business choices based on what she thinks will work. Whether I agree with them or not........or I will base a detector purchase on what her hair looks like........give me a break.

[phrunt]

I recall the marketing video where a Vanquish user chucked their old Ace looking detector to the ground or something, a subtle dig at the Ace detectors although it wasn't all that unrealistic, I've wanted to wrap some detectors around trees before myself. 

Garrett did similar with the Apex really bashing the Vanquish as a bit of payback I guess 🙂 I wonder how Minelab will respond to all the criticism of their products from Nokta when the Equinox 1000 comes out, will they target any flaws that the Legend has or just ignore it.

Sometimes this stuff can just be subtle and a bit funny, other times it gets taken too far.  It's starting to go to too far now I think.  I'm glad XP has stayed out of it.  Nobody had previously taken any digs at Nokta, perhaps as they didn't see them as a threat but Nokta sure took digs at them and it may backfire on them yet.

[Chase Goldman]

19 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Whether I agree with them or not........or I will base a detector purchase on what her hair looks like........give me a break.

Yes. I find such comments offensive and embarrassing (considering that Nokta reps regularly contribute to this forum), regardless of whether they were meant in light-hearted jest or were truly just mean spirited and ignorant.  The problem is that this medium doesn't readily enable you to tell the difference, so the worst case motivations are often assumed.