Jump to content

Deus 2 Vs Nokta/Makro Legend


Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, abenson said:

I think any testers that release any head to head comparisons better have at least 50 plus hours on either the Legend or Deus 2 before any conclusions are drawn.

I totally agree. The first YouTube “testers” are just trying to be first, to get the views. It takes a lot of time to sort this stuff out. I know, been there, done that, and not taking the time to really use the machines in favor of snap decisions on planted test beds, well, yeah, whatever. I’ll wait for a consensus to develop in maybe 6 months minimum after the machines hit users, and rely on multiple trusted sources. It’s not like Equinox got instant acceptance either - just the opposite as the skeptics piled on. I expect more of the same here.

Gotta admit it would be fun to be part of the game, but I simply do not have the time. I’m hot on the gold trail, and every hour I spend this year has to be on the hunt for gold, not testing this versus that. I suspect it will be largely splitting hairs anyway, not like some huge advance in capability I don’t already have. For a PI guy, any VLF is a big step down. Tarsacci really disappointed me in that regard after all the hype about it discriminating to PI depth. Sorry, no, not even close in my ground. So for me it’s all a battle over which machine of all these less powerful detectors is the best, not what I actually intend on using. :smile:

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites


On 11/20/2021 at 4:45 AM, Steve Herschbach said:

XP Deus II at $1599

versus

Nokta/Makro Legend at $635

Is Deus II worth over double the price? And how do both match up against Multi-IQ? Only head to head field tests will tell, but this looks like a real grudge match if I ever saw one!

deus-2-multi-frequency-waterproof-metal-detector.jpgnokta-makro-legend-mf-detector.jpg

The price of the Legend is kind of shocking. I expected it to be maybe $100 cheaper than an Equinox 800, but over $300?! I’m a bit more suspicious than others about what NM is up to with moves like this. It’s nice to save $300, or in the case of Deus II $1000, if all else is equal, but what long term effect does this have on industry innovators? Is NM trying to raise the bar on competition, or purposely trying to make it unaffordable for them to compete and continue to innovate by adopting and then underselling the product. And personally I’ve never wanted everyone in the world to take up metal detecting, as I know what that does to our hobby, so making it more affordable is not appealing to me. I’m not rich by any means, and some sectors of this hobby are too expensive, but I’m fine with the price of admission and advantages being harder to come by. It’s taken me years to get where I am and I’m ok with that. So I think we have to ask ourselves a couple questions. Are these companies overselling us by that much or is NM trying to crush them with their own innovations? Is the truth in between even? Do we really want Metal Detecting to become so much more affordable and popular? While the new machines and things might seem good right now what are the long term effects of all of this for us and for those who take the expensive and time consuming chance to lead and innovate? 
 

Im kind of picking on NM here when both XP and NM have kind of repackaged Minelab’s technology and now selling it back to us. I’m just worried that the long term effect of this will be to make it not worth the bother to innovate. That this is a Walmart kind of maneuver. Come in, temporarily undersell, shut down the competition, raise prices back up after they are gone. I could also be way off base, IDK, but it’s been on my mind. 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

   I'm not going to attempt overthinking any covert maneuvers, that any of the companies are possibly attempting! I consider myself, an  intermediate detectorist at best, and focus on the most bang for the buck! Under a thousand dollars is where I live! You all, that have been at this a long time, generally have higher expectations and needs, than myself!

    That being said, I'm not worried about too many people sticking with the hobby! The Legend is squarely priced in that "sweet spot" for people in my intermediate realm! Many will probably buy, use a handful of times, and give up, or sell! Great for the secondary market, and NM's bottom line! Or maybe some of them may simply move up from one of NM's lesser models, and stick with it for awhile!

   I'm ok either way, as I don't look at other's detecting as competition, but rather as allies against the overregulation of our hobby, and more voices to help change some of the limiting rules already in place! Many of us aren't getting any younger, and personally, l don't mind a younger set, who know the proper rules, to follow behind us, and keep the hobby alive and well! JMO👍👍

 

 

  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Right there with ya Rob,

This is a little off topic, but every price range has idiots! Price is not a limiting factor for stupidity or lack of common sense! But for the most part, it's the few beginner's who don't bother to learn anything about the hobby; just buy an "off the shelf" detector, and dig away without any knowledge of ethics, or consequences! Of course, there are exceptions, and some "seasoned" people who just don't care! Or are trespassing, and digging illegally! We can't police everyone!

   But on the plus side, many new people that I have seen come to this forum, and others for advice, info, etc... seem to care, and are mostly aware of the general rules of the field, as they have been reading this, and other forums, as non-members for awhile, which is good to see!

   You also have to remember that there are "those" that don't approve of "Treasure Hunters" in general, and are willing to go to great lengths to throw us all under the bus, every chance they get! Even to the extreme of "staging" spots to "blame" on those 🤬 metal detecting guys!! 👍👍

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ☠ Cipher said:

The price of the Legend is kind of shocking. I expected it to be maybe $100 cheaper than an Equinox 800, but over $300?! I’m a bit more suspicious than others about what NM is up to with moves like this.

It’s not a particularly wise move from a business perspective. I’m not sure they would have sold any less for a couple hundred bucks more, and that’s just leaving money on the table. The only reason there would be is an attempt to disrupt the market/buy market share. Some would also call Minelab doing what they did with Equinox to be the same thing, but as the dominant player it gets cast more as predatory pricing, intent on killing competitors. It may have helped push White’s into the grave. So in that respect as the scrappy newcomer NM is kind of throwing Minelab’s game back in their face. Ultimately NM still have no real market mind share though, and so to me this does look like an outright bid to get some recognition and market share. It hurts Minelab far less than it does First Texas in particular, and Garrett, and leapfrogs both those old line companies purely from a technical standpoint, even if you ignore the price. People are still going to buy Minelabs, but with machines like this, why buy a Fisher?

Repackaging Minelab? All detector companies have been borrowing and reusing concepts from each other for as long as detecting exists. Just like any other industry, whether it’s bicycles, PCs, shoes, or golf clubs.

  • Like 6
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ☠ Cipher said:

Do we really want Metal Detecting to become so much more affordable and popular?

Too late. That ship sailed a long time ago. If anything the Garrett Ace started it, not this.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Set the R&D costs aside as they get them back over time with sales of this and future models the Legend will cost similar to what the Simplex does to actually build in construction costs, they're making good money on the Simplex so they're making a lot of money on the Legend.  You only have to look at the Chinese clones and how cheap they can sell them to see what the actual production costs of detectors are where they can make and ship a high end Fisher model knock off for $100, I'm simply talking construction costs of the detectors, they're very low.  Nokta being made in Turkey and Minelab being made in Malaysia where production costs are very low...   What do you think a GPX 6000 costs to actually make? Very little, in the hundreds.

It happens in a lot with various products, the higher the model is in specifications the more profit is made on it.   They put the Legend at a price they think gives it an edge, they could go a lot lower if they needed to and they'll do that with specials and promos in the future by throwing in coils or pinpointers and hats and other gear to try take more of the market share.

The fights on now and we are at the interesting part, the manufacturers have put it out there what they have, let's now see how they respond to each other.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Set the R&D costs aside as they get them back over time with sales of this and future models the Legend will cost similar to what the Simplex does to actually build in construction costs, they're making good money on the Simplex so they're making a lot of money on the Legend.  You only have to look at the Chinese clones and how cheap they can sell them to see what the actual production costs of detectors are where they can make and ship a high end Fisher model knock off for $100, I'm simply talking construction costs of the detectors, they're very low.  Nokta being made in Turkey and Minelab being made in Malaysia where production costs are very low...   What do you think a GPX 6000 costs to actually make? Very little, in the hundreds.

It happens in a lot with various products, the higher the model is in specifications the more profit is made on it.   They put the Legend at a price they think gives it an edge, they could go a lot lower if they needed to and they'll do that with specials and promos in the future by throwing in coils or pinpointers and hats and other gear to try take more of the market share.

The fights on now and we are at the interesting part, the manufacturers have put it out there what they have, let's now see how they respond to each other.

The Chinese T2 knockoffs were costing them $30 each to produce. Orig. Quest wireless headphones from the Chinese manufacturer, found could buy the Transmitter and headphones for $12 per set. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fisher have nothing to lose now as they don't even have a horse in this race.   The last race they participated in was the Vanquish, Simplex and Apex release as their T2/F75 variants were up against them and well I'll let anyone be the judge of where they were positioned in that race.  Even then they were riding on an old horse with decades old technology so they have no investment in that race they just let their old previously high end technology complete against modern day entry level machines. 

If they haven't made back their R&D and production costs and garnered a substantial profit off those detectors by now there is something wrong and I'm sure they have, they've been on the market for such a long time.  The days of doing that are gone, detectors are becoming more like normal electronic products now with a much shorter lifecycle.  Those that don't keep up with the pace are out of the race.  Counterfeiters won't be such a problem with more regular new models, having a detector on the market for decades is asking for trouble.

The multi frequency general purpose machines are even making their flagship dinosaur Gold Bug 2 redundant, or at least an even more specialist machine than it already was.  Now for a majority of people just using a multi frequency machine with a small coil can be just as good if not better than using a single purpose gold prospecting VLF machine.  I think Nokta know that too as they've culled down their gold VLF's to just the Kruzer and Gold Finder 2000, there is no need for a big range of models when multi purpose multi frequency machines can do it all.  Their other single frequency VLF's will be sitting on the shelves at discounted prices.

I'm happy Nokta, Garrett and XP are in this race, we don't need another monopoly like Minelab have on the high end gold machines and it would be awesome if these detectors like the Rutus enter the race as mainstream detectors too. 

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Similar Content

    • By calabash digger
      The video will need to be translated unless you know French . I used the Youtube translate feature. It is not perfect but it got the job done.
       
    • By kac
      Curious if the Legend is compatible with the Pulse Dive pointer and maybe the Green headphones. Anyone know?
    • By Nuke em
      I have decided to buy this machine . I think it will work well and i also think Minelab is going to have a big thorn in its Equinox side with this one. 
      But it wont replace my Nox. I will give Minelab a chance to bring something out that i want .
      As for the Deus 11 , thats a straight swap for the Deus 1 plus cash.
    • By ColonelDan
      I've read several threads on the soon-to-be-fielded Deus 2 and how it will compare to the Equinox. There have been many good views on this topic so I thought I'd share mine. As you read this, keep in mind the views expressed here are worth just as much as you've paid for them. 😁

      1. Wireless vs Wired: I'm 99% a salt water beach hunter with my EQX 800 and the way I grid a beach, I often go from the damp sand to the wet sand and then into the surf (only about 1 foot deep due to concerns over water intrusion so I keep the control box dry). Given that, a Deus II for me would have to be constantly wired from coil to control box in order to work in the surf. For that reason, a totally wireless capability would not be that enticing since the wire from coil to box would be a permanent configuration.

      2. Waterproof: I owned a Deus and found it to be a solidly engineered machine so I'm not a skeptic where XP claims of being waterproof are concerned. Were I to make a wager, I'd bet on much better waterproof performance in the Deus II than was the original ML waterproof claim for the EQX. Being truly waterproof is important for me and not because I hunt deeper than 1 foot in salt water these days because I don't. Ours is an outdoor hobby so I think all detectors should be waterproof...at the very least, reliably weatherproof. How many times have you been caught in the rain or dropped your detector in a puddle of water? Even if you are a land hunter and never go near any water, replacing a damaged or inop machine due to moisture intrusion isn't a trivial thing.

      3. Build quality: The Deus I had was quality built, rugged and reliable. No coil ear issues, wobbly shafts or arm cuff breakage. In my view, it was a much more rugged detector than Minelab products in certain areas. XP doesn't seem to pinch pennies as did Minelab on simple things. Recall the original skimpy gaskets they put in the CTX 3030 that caused flooding of the battery box. The issue was solved when they came out with merely a little thicker gasket! Their use of cheap coil ears, arm cuffs and wobbly shafts on the EQX series is another example. For a few pennies more per unit, they would have saved untold thousands in warranty replacement costs in both the CTX and EQX series machines. Although they are among the very best where software technology is concerned, I never understood that "penny wise pound foolish" approach in their physical build design.

      4. Overall Performance: This is where the EQX was superior to my original Deus. The multi-frequency/multi IQ of the EQX vs the selectable single frequency of the Deus was an obvious choice in my salt water beach hunting environment. I eventually sold my Deus for that reason. Now, if XP has really overcome that limitation in the Deus II with their FMF feature, I'll be happily impressed.

      5. Final Thoughts: I'm with the others who will take a "wait and see" approach. But, given my past experience with XP engineering, I have no doubt the Deus II will be a very capable salt water beach detector. Will it generally outperform the Minelabs? TBD. Will it be found that XP pinched pennies on their build quality? I say no. It will be a well built unit. Will it be more comfortable to use than the Minelabs? Yes. Will it be more complex in its settings options than the Minelabs? Yes. Will it's overall performance justify the higher price tag compared to the current EQX? TBD but that will be determined solely by and in the eye of the beholder as the saying goes.

      Just a few thoughts from my foxhole...  
×
×
  • Create New...