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Here’s Youtube Video - Dilek Talking About Legend


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This misses the point people are making. Multi-iq is not just generic marketing jargon for “simultaneous multifrequency.” It describes the way Minelab’s latest version of multifrequency works, by using mode specific frequency combos and task specific frequency weighted algorithms all of which has been copied here by NMs own admission in their description of the device. Not to mention everything else copied right down to the tones. You can’t just make that go away by saying “this is untrue” or “my competitors don’t own multifrequency.” No they don’t, but multi-iq is not just any multifrequency. It is Minelab’s creation and has specific operating characteristics no other version of multifrequency had. Then to turn around and fling snot at Minelab after borrowing all this just wasn’t a good look. I have nothing against NM. I own products. I think Dilek is great. This is the hand she was dealt. I just hoped NM would create something of their own here and not just replicate multi-iq. At the very least it all looks so close to Equinox that it makes for bad optics I expect will create controversy from now till who can guess when. This debate won’t die down anytime soon, but that’s a gamble NM took here.
 

In the end, Minelab was right about SMF vs single frequency. Multi-iq has advantages almost everywhere. Simplex only proved that if you make a WATERPROOF machine cheap enough people will still buy single frequency machines. It really said nothing about the relevance of single frequency. I’ll bet people won’t even use the single frequency options on The Legend. Even on Deus 2 single frequencies seem to be an almost afterthought, with SMF the centerpiece. 

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The whole bashing thing cracks me up. The person digging a bottle cap on the beach with the Equinox and the other person throwing the Apex. The beach is one of the places the Apex actually does pretty good. Bottle caps have been a non-issue for me since day 1 on the Equinox. You can either use the pull back method or crank the iron bias up. Speaking of iron bias, I don't recall seeing any setting for that on the Legend, unless their answer to that is the iron probability meter. I really never had much faith in those meters in my mineralized soil though. Nokta Makro has made some pretty bold claims. I hope they don't end up eating crow in the end.

Multi IQ is all about how the signal is processed, I don't know how Nokta Makro could replicate Multi IQ in the Legend but maybe they did or did it better. As we saw with Multi Flex it's just not the same as Multi IQ. The Apex isn't even as good as most single frequency detectors let alone Multi IQ. With the exception of the beach.

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I just think NM had to know this criticism would come with the territory as they made each and every decision to emulate another platform. Apparently this is ok in the industry because everyone is going to have to emulate multi-iq to get out of the innovation rut the industry was in. This is why I think Minelab is owed more gratitude and respect than anything. The whole industry was fast approaching a stuck point technologically where nothing truly different was on the horizon. The Equinox changed that and generated excitement with multi-iq. Now everyone in the industry is clamoring to come up with a way to implement it for themselves. Minelab features have always generated excitement at times things were getting stale. But multi-iq has sent everyone scrambling in way nothing else has. It has given customers something to get excited about and manufactures a way to revive interest in creating new product lines around its methodology. Even among NM own product line nothing has generated the buzz and anticipation this product has because deep down people know and see what a difference the technology behind it makes in the field. One day maybe Minelab will emulate something NM creates. Then they will truly be setting the standard. Until then NM is still making its way up the ladder. They’ve accomplished a lot and leapfrogged big names in a short period. There’s no need to get overly hungry to get into the lead at this stage. It’s ok to admit this product was inspired by another as they continue to learn and try to keep up. That’s true and it’s humble. It’s more than some of the others are doing. 

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I'm once again reminded why I like to listen to engineers instead of marketers.  Thanks, Carl.

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3 hours ago, Geotech said:

Every MF detector made prior to the Equinox used multiple I/Q demod techniques so Multi-IQ doesn't really say anything. What the Equinox did was to expand the specific frequency combos for the different modes, and ML wasn't the only company with that idea. The White's V4 definition had that and more, as does my recent FTP patent. This is just an evolutionary step in detector design and It stands to reason that every other new MF will adopt it.

Once you have an MF platform, including multiple MF modes is relatively easy. It's the DSP that ain't easy, and because it's all in the micro it's a pretty sure bet NM didn't copy that. So I disagree that NM is copying ML's creation, no more than companies did with the technologies of TR-Disc, VLF motion disc, tone ID, and displays. Everyone moves ahead or gets left behind. In this case ML is the innovator and NM is the follower, and there's nothing wrong with that. NM might end up with a better product, or maybe not. Or maybe an OK product that doesn't leak.

In any case, it much ado about nuthin' and no response from Dilek about all this would probably have served NM better.

 

You’re talking about things that have never seen the light of day and that’s the problem with everyone’s ideas. They aren’t making it out into users hands. Everyone can talk about what they were going to do or are going to do, but Minelab gets it done. This all just sounds like a primer for what I’ve already said, that everyone is eventually going to have to copy multi-iq to get out of their stuck point. Dimishing multi-iq, or saying it’s being done through some other chip or demod method makes no real difference. It still amounts to adopting someone else’s platform by emulating it’s operating characteristics. Operating characteristics that have not appeared on any other machines but the equinox and vanquish. Getting lost in the technical differences under the hood of this machine or pointing out loose similarities in past methods or ideas is not going to change what people are plainly observing with their own eyes. The answer can’t be you’re not seeing what you’re seeing or that Multi-iq has somehow been done before. I never said legend is an exact carbon copy. It’s just too close to what Minelab has already done and lacks originality. I’m far from alone in feeling that way. I suspect I’m in a minority because most people just don’t care and want the metal detectors to keep cranking out in ways that benefit them. There’s a part of me that feels that way too, but I also want to see something innovative come out of it. That being said, I fully expect all the manufacturers to side with NM on this and have ready rationale for doing so because the game plan from here is to do something similar themselves. 
 

As an aside, I don’t want to come across as a crank or an ass here. I’m in good spirits and offer my points of view in good spirits even if it’s not coming across. I appreciate your presence here and your ideas. I hate that you’re not working for a company to make them a reality. Of anyones ideas I’d like to see yours come to fruition. They all sound like my kind of metal detector. You deserve better and more resources. But I disagree that there’s enough real world separation between equinox, multi-iq, and legend such that these kinds of observations and comparisons weren’t entirely predictable and avoidable. If anything it’s a good lesson for future platforms to add enough originality to operating characteristics and features, frequency selection, frequency combinations, tones that it doesn’t appear to be a cheaper technological imitation, but it’s own product. Obviously multi-iq was received this way. It built on any similarity to anything else enough to be its own product with very little criticism that was copied homework. If there were any it went away when people saw it was different from what they had been using. 

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You are correct, Minelab deserves credit for actually getting things done. And they've done a lot of innovating, most of which has never been adopted by other companies. Like BBS/FBS, 2D target analysis, flutey tones, and everything they've done in PI. And, yes, the Legend has a lot of the same looks & features of the Equinox. I just don't see it as being a Big Deal. No bigger than when everyone added tone ID after Teknetics the Old came up with the idea.

It's not a requirement that a new detector be original or innovative; most are not. And sometimes a detector that has a lot of innovation fails in other other key aspects, as did the White's V3. I just don't understand why NM is getting so much grief over this. Did Garrett get this much criticism over their Apex (which, functionally, also seems to closely mimic the Equinox)? I only remember they got criticized for lack of waterproofing.

I'm not defending NM because FTP might also do something similar. From what little I've heard, I'm pretty sure we won't, and no time soon, either. I have ideas that I strongly believe would take us past MIQ but no one is interested, and like the stuff we were working on at White's I suspect it will never see the light of day.

 

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I'm a bit confused by the talk about the Legend being a copy of the Equinox.

The Legend looks a lot like the Simplex - which makes sense because the Legend is housed in the Simplex form. I suppose the Simplex could be said to look something like the Equinox, but I don't recall any complaints about the Nox looking quite similar to the Deteknix Quest Pro (released prior to the Nox).

The two (Legend and Nox) seem to share a number of features, but that can be said for the Nox and machines that preceded it. Nokta-Makro has been quite upfront about their efforts to make a SMF machine that had those features that people requested, so I am not surprised to learn that the Legend has a number of features that are also found on the Nox (and other machines). My guess is that Minelab included desired features on the Nox because people wanted them - a concept that (I would think) should be applauded.

The unknown, thus far anyway, is the performance of the Legend. So that can't be the basis for those opining that the Legend is a copy of the Nox. But if the Legend matches the performance of the Nox exactly, I would think that is something that NM should be commended for; especially given the rather significant price difference.

If the Legend falls below the performance of the Nox I would be surprised if people claimed the Legend copied the Nox - for obvious reasons. Should the Legend's performance surpass that of the Nox, any claims of copying would reflect rather poorly on Minelab.

As for Nokta-Makro targeting the Equinox (specifically the 800) - is it really a shock that a company would want to compete with their competitor's best selling machine? As detectorists we should encourage all (metal detector) manufacturers to bring their very best effort to market; anything less is to our own detriment. 

At times I am confused by the metal detecting community: we want the features/performance and spend many hours complaining about the lack of competitive machines from all the manufacturers, but when a company produces a metal detector that was designed to meet our demands - we deride that company for creating what we demanded?

In my mind that is akin to cutting off our nose to spite our face. 

 

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Everything needs to turn into a reality TV drama these days guys.  Part of the marketing and staying relevant. I couldn’t finish watching it.  Better things to do this week. I’ll wait for the tests and side by side and opinions. Happy Thanksgiving. 

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