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Here’s Youtube Video - Dilek Talking About Legend


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I'm a potential customer.  As an agile practitioner in the software industry, I preach getting closer to the customer every single day, to the engineering teams I coach.

Dilek, I applaud your interacting and listening to your customers and potential customers.  Love it.  I don't see any other companies in this space doing so much to get closer to the customer.  But, as you astutely observed yourself, these folks are neither customers nor potential customers.  Please, put your time and energy into engaging with the latter two groups.  

My $.02.

- Dave

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On 11/23/2021 at 11:50 PM, Geotech said:

Did Garrett get this much criticism over their Apex (which, functionally, also seems to closely mimic the Equinox)?

I can’t speak for everyone but I did offer the same criticisms of the Apex somewhere buried in the forum. I think one of the reasons why NM is getting so much blowback here is many people felt insulted that as NM adopted something that is described as doing the same things that made multi-iq what it is, they were also diminishing it by implying customers/users of it fell for thin marketing jargon for generic simultaneous multifrequency, and there’s nothing really special about it. However it was meant, this is how it came across, and the irony seemed lost on them.
 

These insults continue by saying Equinox users are just buying a label and upset because they paid nearly $1,000 for a $635 machine. The irony that it can be $635 partly because it’s built on that label’s already established platform is also lost. The thing is that people like me who will spend $1,000 and much more won’t hesitate to also spend $635 if it brings something more or else to the table. Chase is also right, Minlelab never threw the first stone at NM. Going after Minelab so aggressively and insulting their customers wasn’t as effective as just telling them why their product is more desirable and how. It made people defensive. Even Garrett users became defensive after seeing the Apex tossed in the sand like rubbish. Most of us here own machines by several manufacturers. We think a lot of the machines we have. That’s not to say there’s not fair criticisms of the way Multi-iq and other platforms are marketed. There are, and you’ve touched on them. NM’s missed the target and came from a glass house in a way.  
 

On 11/23/2021 at 11:50 PM, Geotech said:

I have ideas that I strongly believe would take us past MIQ but no one is interested, and like the stuff we were working on at White's I suspect it will never see the light of day.

I believe you. It makes me sad. If there were a company I want to see succeed above all others it’s First Texas and Fisher. I can’t for the life of me wrap my head around their strategy/game plan, or lack thereof. I loved the sound of the things you guys were working on at Whites. V3i remains a machine I’ll never part with. Shame it was lost on so many people, but it does have quite a cult following to this day. I was hoping to see something a little closer to that platform and color graphics on one of these new machines. Same boring black and white LCDs across the board was disappointing. 
 

I can say that the Ferrocheck graphic is an intriguing addition to Legend. Things like that are what I’m looking for and what customers like. Instead it seems like most platforms have moved away from graphics discrimination aides just because they arent always useful in every scenario. 

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2 hours ago, ☠ Cipher said:

I can’t speak for everyone but I did offer the same criticisms of the Apex somewhere buried in the forum. I think one of the reasons why NM is getting so much blowback here is many people felt insulted that as NM adopted something that is described as doing the same things that made multi-iq what it is, they were also diminishing it by implying customers/users of it fell for thin marketing jargon for generic simultaneous multifrequency, and there’s nothing really special about it. However it was meant, this is how it came across, and the irony seemed lost on them.
 

These insults continue by saying Equinox users are just buying a label and upset because they paid nearly $1,000 for a $635 machine. The irony that it can be $635 partly because it’s built on that label’s already established platform is also lost. The thing is that people like me who will spend $1,000 and much more won’t hesitate to also spend $635 if it brings something more or else to the table. Chase is also right, Minlelab never threw the first stone at NM. Going after Minelab so aggressively and insulting their customers wasn’t as effective as just telling them why their product is more desirable and how. It made people defensive. Even Garrett users became defensive after seeing the Apex tossed in the sand like rubbish. Most of us here own machines by several manufacturers. We think a lot of the machines we have. That’s not to say there’s not fair criticisms of the way Multi-iq and other platforms are marketed. There are, and you’ve touched on them. NM’s missed the target and came from a glass house in a way.  
 

I believe you. It makes me sad. If there were a company I want to see succeed above all others it’s First Texas and Fisher. I can’t for the life of me wrap my head around their strategy/game plan, or lack thereof. I loved the sound of the things you guys were working on at Whites. V3i remains a machine I’ll never part with. Shame it was lost on so many people, but it does have quite a cult following to this day. I was hoping to see something a little closer to that platform and color graphics on one of these new machines. Same boring black and white LCDs across the board was disappointing. 
 

I can say that the Ferrocheck graphic is an intriguing addition to Legend. Things like that are what I’m looking for and what customers like. Instead it seems like most platforms have moved away from graphics discrimination aides just because they arent always useful in every scenario. 

I respect everything you say but competition MUST stay between the manufacturers. So are you saying that when Coke says let's say ''Pepsi is not special'' Pepsi lovers can and have the right to insult Coke -the product along with the company and their executives? I am so sorry but if this is your approach, I totally disagree.

Maybe you guys are not seeing what's happening around the world between the competitors in real life, at hunts or behind the scenes. Or have not even watched some of the official videos and/or videos made by the company itself or their team members humiliating and/or trying to make the other brands look bad...

Sorry, if we were not a serious player in this industry, we would let it go and allow a one-man show just like some others did and then die out but the end users have a right to have options... 

I do not know how much engineering background you have or how many patents you have have read but what you see as a technology owned or invented by the competitor and what we are doing are just different ways of utilizing a technology that has been out there for sooo long.

And regarding tossing the other product on the beach- as a matter of fact I respect that company a lot .... I wish they left Simplex+ alone and not touched upon its proven performance-which seriously affected their market share in many countries especially in Europe- when they were revealing their latest release...

I say let's please put an end here to this endless debate .... let the customers decide.... 

 

 

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8 hours ago, UT Dave said:

I'm a potential customer.  As an agile practitioner in the software industry, I preach getting closer to the customer every single day, to the engineering teams I coach.

Dilek, I applaud your interacting and listening to your customers and potential customers.  Love it.  I don't see any other companies in this space doing so much to get closer to the customer.  But, as you astutely observed yourself, these folks are neither customers nor potential customers.  Please, put your time and energy into engaging with the latter two groups.  

My $.02.

- Dave

My sincere thanks!!

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Just my 2 cents since I'm new to this forum but not new to metal detecting. 

I joined this forum to get a good feel of today's machines.  I have made my decision on my new machine and couldn't be more excited.  I can honestly say this forum is definitely where the experts hang out and I feel blessed to be a part of this forum.  

I got sucked into the hype NM had laid out before announcing their new MD.  I tuned in to the live feed and watched the introduction where other machines were bashed as inferior/junk.  Initially after seeing that, it had no effect on me until I thought about it a few days.  Then it hit me.  NM is now stooping to the low level of politics here in the United States.  Instead of presenting the Legend on it's strengths, NM is trying to instill into everyone's head that every other MD out there is fake and here is some mud slinging to go with it.  That is when I decided I'm not going to drink the NM Kool-aid......I'm out.  I gave up on politics in the USA many years ago.  My stomach is too old and having one coronary artery stent is more than enough.  I just hope NM doesn't continue down the path of bad mouthing other products/company's.  If they do, this will only reinforce that NM concedes that their MD's aren't anything new and possibly not up to other companies standards.....2 year warranty. 

Instead of NM getting up to other company's standards, it is obvious NM is trying to drag other company's down to their level of marketing strategy.  When a company is threatened, especially financially, they immediately go on the attack due to desperation.  

Sad day overall for NM. They lost a potential customer with me.

I hope Dilek learns from her error in judgment.  I love her energy and excitement but leave the bashing and mud slinging to American politics.  Our governments approval ratings speak for themselves.

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My objective viewpoint on the launch of Legend.  I loved the Simplex launch video.  There were other detectors present in it.  But they weren’t talked about.  That video made a potential customer curious.  And I think that was a good thing.

Legend launch video.  I didn’t like.  That beach part was definitely less than stellar.  There’s on old saying around here.  The cream always comes to the top.

Singling out other manufacturers products with comments imo should be off limits.  Talking in general terms referring to the competition is alright to do.

I can remember when simultaneous multi freq was being talked down not too long ago by certain folk.  Oh yeah I have a real good memory.

Legend detector will be exposed for what it can do well, mediocre, and not so well in due time.  Social media will see to that.  Process happens pretty fast as long as folks have access to units.  Btw, some folks do do videos comparing detectors as this is a by product of satisfying their curiosity of answering the question, “Am I using the best tool for the job I do normally” ?  And some may view such videos depending on how the detector models does as bashing, if they report some negatives on unit.

Simultaneous Multi freq does seem have advantages over single frequency or selectable single frequency detectors. Ask most very experienced detectorist and they will admit as such.  Mr Dankowski on his forum posted about this subject just not too long ago.  The forum owner here has through his comments seen advantages too it seems.

Now the word ‘obsolete’, this seems triggered a reaction from you Dilek.  Question is was Minelab’s use of the word untrue.  The word obsolete when describing a product or system doesn’t mean the product or system is useless, unusable, worthless, it only means there is a better product or system to do something.  Guess if Minelab was so far off base then why have Garrett, and then Xp, and now you fine folks at Nokta Makro released and or debuted multi frequency detector models.

You see when you cross the line and single out one or more other manufacturers models folks expect the person or manufacturer who crossed the line to keep going.  Keep going and tell and or show the benefits of having your product over competitiors’ products.  And waterproofing is only one facet.  There is more folks want to know about.  Sorta plays here like a court proceeding where one lawyer opens up with a line of questioning, then the lawyer from other side pursues this line of questioning and all of a  sudden the other side who started objects.

I think it is fair to say.  A lot of folks at the different detector companies work hard.  The industry is very competitive now for sure.  And yes they likely are proud of their products and accomplishments.

In closing. Mr Herschbach has a nice forum here.  He doesn’t tolerate jackass behavior.  His forum is growing too.  Last thought.  Wonder how hard it is to move an elephant?

 

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2 hours ago, Momokahn said:

Just my 2 cents since I'm new to this forum but not new to metal detecting. 

I joined this forum to get a good feel of today's machines.  I have made my decision on my new machine and couldn't be more excited.  I can honestly say this forum is definitely where the experts hang out and I feel blessed to be a part of this forum.  

I got sucked into the hype NM had laid out before announcing their new MD.  I tuned in to the live feed and watched the introduction where other machines were bashed as inferior/junk.  Initially after seeing that, it had no effect on me until I thought about it a few days.  Then it hit me.  NM is now stooping to the low level of politics here in the United States.  Instead of presenting the Legend on it's strengths, NM is trying to instill into everyone's head that every other MD out there is fake and here is some mud slinging to go with it.  That is when I decided I'm not going to drink the NM Kool-aid......I'm out.  I gave up on politics in the USA many years ago.  My stomach is too old and having one coronary artery stent is more than enough.  I just hope NM doesn't continue down the path of bad mouthing other products/company's.  If they do, this will only reinforce that NM concedes that their MD's aren't anything new and possibly not up to other companies standards.....2 year warranty. 

Instead of NM getting up to other company's standards, it is obvious NM is trying to drag other company's down to their level of marketing strategy.  When a company is threatened, especially financially, they immediately go on the attack due to desperation.  

Sad day overall for NM. They lost a potential customer with me.

I hope Dilek learns from her error in judgment.  I love her energy and excitement but leave the bashing and mud slinging to American politics.  Our governments approval ratings speak for themselves.

With all due respect, your words ''When a company is threatened, especially financially, they immediately go on the attack due to desperation.'' just provess how far off you really are from the realitites of this industry. 

So when a product is called ''Imitation'' in an official video and misleads potential customers it is ''high'' level of marketing? 

If you say yes, we simply have very different views... 

Like I said, an endless debate....so I will let it go. 

...and thank you btw for the compliments in the last paragraph.

 

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Tnsharpshooter said:

My objective viewpoint on the launch of Legend.  I loved the Simplex launch video.  There were other detectors present in it.  But they weren’t talked about.  That video made a potential customer curious.  And I think that was a good thing.

Legend launch video.  I didn’t like.  That beach part was definitely less than stellar.  There’s on old saying around here.  The cream always comes to the top.

Singling out other manufacturers products with comments imo should be off limits.  Talking in general terms referring to the competition is alright to do.

I can remember when simultaneous multi freq was being talked down not too long ago by certain folk.  Oh yeah I have a real good memory.

Legend detector will be exposed for what it can do well, mediocre, and not so well in due time.  Social media will see to that.  Process happens pretty fast as long as folks have access to units.  Btw, some folks do do videos comparing detectors as this is a by product of satisfying their curiosity of answering the question, “Am I using the best tool for the job I do normally” ?  And some may view such videos depending on how the detector models does as bashing, if they report some negatives on unit.

Simultaneous Multi freq does seem have advantages over single frequency or selectable single frequency detectors. Ask most very experienced detectorist and they will admit as such.  Mr Dankowski on his forum posted about this subject just not too long ago.  The forum owner here has through his comments seen advantages too it seems.

Now the word ‘obsolete’, this seems triggered a reaction from you Dilek.  Question is was Minelab’s use of the word untrue.  The word obsolete when describing a product or system doesn’t mean the product or system is useless, unusable, worthless, it only means there is a better product or system to do something.  Guess if Minelab was so far off base then why have Garrett, and then Xp, and now you fine folks at Nokta Makro released and or debuted multi frequency detector models.

You see when you cross the line and single out one or more other manufacturers models folks expect the person or manufacturer who crossed the line to keep going.  Keep going and tell and or show the benefits of having your product over competitiors’ products.  And waterproofing is only one facet.  There is more folks want to know about.  Sorta plays here like a court proceeding where one lawyer opens up with a line of questioning, then the lawyer from other side pursues this line of questioning and all of a  sudden the other side who started objects.

I think it is fair to say.  A lot of folks at the different detector companies work hard.  The industry is very competitive now for sure.  And yes they likely are proud of their products and accomplishments.

In closing. Mr Herschbach has a nice forum here.  He doesn’t tolerate jackass behavior.  His forum is growing too.  

 

Hello! Just want to respond to one thing as I said enough about the other topics....

''Guess if Minelab was so far off base then why have Garrett, and then Xp, and now you fine folks at Nokta Makro released and or debuted multi frequency detector models.''

I can only speak for our company....  Our customers asked for it ...It is totally acceptable and welcomed if it is coming from the end users, the true judges.

But when such a claim comes from a manufacturer and when it is simply NOT true based on % of sales in this industry, of which maybe you are NOT preview to, even after 3 -4 years after the claim was made, yes that does bother all other manufacturers not only NM...but I take the hit, why? Because I  say it openly to the public and not keep it as a subject discussed in meetings or private discussions. 

I respect Mr Herschbach more than any of you can imagine.... and that is why I will drop by to answer questions on the machine for those who are interested only. 

 

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Only other thing I have to say on this matter.  Using social media to help launch a product.  When smartly done I think can pay huge dividends.  So, I actually liked the naming contest as this indeed got people involved.  Maybe even customers who may be deemed not potential customers.  Folks can change their minds though.  I wonder if the detecting public would have been solicited for ideas when it came to debuting Legend detector, what folks would have said?  I may have indeed went this route.  Why?  It keeps folks both interested, curious, etc.  and shows a manufacturer having more sincere interest.  I can think of few things that could have been shown or done with Legend detector.  I don’t think it’s too early to show videos of Legend in action.  There is a thirst out there.  Weather in USA colder right now and getting colder.  Folks spend more of their spare time looking on internet.

I will even go ahead here and give some ideas.

Show Legend being used by taller person, like 6’4” tall.  

Show legend display in the dark or darker conditions.

Give demo on noise cancel feature,  with say one of your other VLF models in closer proximity to Legend.

Show some USA coin ID, even on top of the ground.

Let’s see multiple bottlecaps swept.  And note tonal behavior and ID.

Sweep some smaller stainless steel objects and let folks see.

Just navigating the menu.

Ground balancing the detector.

Show varied tone options.

Does the unit display software version anywhere ?

Just showing nuts and bolts will go a long ways.

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My little 2 cents too  .. 🙂

As usual , only intensive field tests done by experienced users will provide answers to many of users questions .

MD companies marketers and electronics engineers have their limit and cannot answer to everything and only field tests tell ( most of 🙂) the truth from a user standpoint.... (Not saying that marketers dont tell the truth btw 🙂 )

By intensive test I mean at least 30/40 hours per detector and probably much more because the new detectors like the NM Legend have several detecting abilities ; inland but also gold and beach prospecting which are very different and require different testing in different areas/locations .

As the new machines ( nokta legend , xp deus2 ) will probably not be available before the beginning of next year ,  then we will need to wait a few weeks before the first field tests results ... Probably in Spring 2022

 

 

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