Deus Deux Very Solid Tid

[scoopjohnb]

I’ve been wachting a few videos here and there. What has jumped out at me is that this machine appears to have a Very Solid TID.

Once it has made up its mind. Doesn’t second guess much, if at all.

That being said combined with the mineral and salt handling capabilities,... could just be wurth the price tag.

[relicmeister]

That’s a real improvement  compared to Deus I and Orx. Coupled with the -6.5 to +99 T. ID range compared to Nox and now Legend which are compressed. This might prove advantageous in multiple search types , even when hunting for worthwhile iron relics. I don’t know what kind of normalization scheme is or isn’t in place on the Deus II from program to program - that’s above my level of technical understanding. Maybe Steve or Chase could provide some insight on that. Frankly, the programs look so well thought out I doubt if I’d be messing with anything beyond sensitivity, ground balance and reactivity. I try to stay away from expert settings. 

[Chase Goldman]

22 minutes ago, Loren said:

I just hope it's a true target ID (im sure it is since its SMF) and not one that is artificially stabilized, even if we are just talking about what is displayed. I am sure it will come through on full tones / the oscilloscope, but you don't want a machine to give a stable ID on everything. I want the TID to bounce on trashy targets and only be stable on targets like coins, which will make navigating trash easier.

I wholeheartedly agree with your comments and concerns on Deus II visual target ID and stability.  Frankly, however, you really can't get enough information just from a two-digit number.  But the stability of that number is a clue that does matter, as you pointed out, so hopefully they just fixed the stability issue on deep targets and retained the "iffy" junk target instability. 

That being said, visual TID only tells a fraction of the story regarding the nature of the target of interest.  Audio is the key target "discriminator" on Deus I and hopefully that has been carried over to Deus II.  I suspect that it has because it appears XP has put a lot of thought into audio enhancement with the new audio equalizer feature and ability select between PWM and square wave audio tones.

That "unstable ID" for junk targets discussed above shines through in the "quality" of the audio used for tone ID or pitch on Deus I.  This is especially prominent when using full tones in modern aluminum junk infested sites.  Irregularly shaped can slaw, broken or bent pull tabs and large overloading crushed beer cans become very obvious by the corresponding  audio distortions that occur when you sweep across these targets or wiggle off of them.  The X-Y screen sort of gives you the corresponding visual cues of this audio distortion, and is a great tool to help you train your ear, but mastering the Deus detectors is really more about understanding what the audio is primarily telling you backed up by the visual target ID IMO.

[Chase Goldman]

25 minutes ago, Loren said:

I would kinda disagree, especially if it is refreshing quickly / isn't too highly averaged or normalized, it's just a different way of visualizing the full tones. The amount of variance in the TID tells about the quality of a target (the spread of TID). The consistency of the peak TID tells a lot (e.g is it bouncy but still a dominant peak TID emerges? or is it truly just displaying random numbers). Is the TID showing a consistent number in one sweep direction and different in the other? Could indicate two very nearby targets like a coin spill. There amount of information you can glean from a true, quickly refreshing TID is quite significant.

Sometimes I wish they would redesign how the TID is displayed. I would a display with several numbers for a TID, one that is a true in the moment reading, one that shows the most recent peak, one that shows an average, and one that is a measure of the variance of the entire sample.

Of course I only ever hunt on full tones so the TID isn't essential, but I like when the TID matches the full tone signature and helps confirm what the ear is telling you.

Re-read my edited post and I think you might see we are actually basically agreeing with each other in regards to visual TID stability and what that stability conveys in regards to the nature of the target.  I had to reword it to adequately get my point across.  Specifically, I acknowledge TID is obviously important and conveys useful information, but by its very nature (at least as implemented on Deus and most other detectors) limited in the information it conveys to the detectorist.  Maybe you still disagree with that revised statement but I stand by it.  I do think visual TID goes hand-in-hand with the audio to give the detectorist a more complete mental picture of what the acquired target might be, but if you take away either the visual or audio component, I think you are robbing yourself of essential target information.  That being said, I know it is a very common practice for Deus detectorists in the UK to hit the field with just their coils and headphones while leaving their remotes behind as they primarily just use the remote to set up the detector before embarking onthat day's hunt and they are very successful doing it that way.  Also, I do believe visual target ID becomes almost essential when using non-tone ID pitch audio and the VCO-like pitch audio of the Gold Field and Relic modes.  And as you said yourself, when using full tones, the visual TID serves more as a confirmatory backup to full tones which is exactly the point I was trying to make.  

[Chase Goldman]

38 minutes ago, Loren said:

I don't know about you, but if I was hunting with full tones and no TID, I could hear a signal waver, but I couldn't tell if it was an exact tonal spread of 2 on the 50 tones Equinox setting. Maybe with some practice I could, but that information is much more easily gleaned by watching the TID range. 

Agree, I can't tell precise spread either or precise TID just from full tones or 50 tones.  They are just pieces of a total puzzle for the sole purpose of making a dig decision.  The 50 tones and full tones audio features just give a general sense of ID stability and frankly only a rough idea of low, mid, or high conductivity.  I seriously doubt most people can actually differentiate between stable symmetric  (e.g.,  coin) targets of close but distinctly different conductivities just by hearing a stable, singular full or 50-tone audio signal.  Just like most people can basically tell a musical note is relative high, medium, or low pitched, only 1 in 10,000 have perfect pitch and can tell you they are hearing middle C when listening to a 440 hz fundamental audio waveform without any other reference.  Many musicians have "relative" pitch abilities if they are given a known audio reference starting point such as middle C, but cannot necessarily identify that note on its own without any other reference.  So a trained ear can get you close to likely target identification and reduce target ID uncertainty, but you only ever really know for sure once that target has been recovered.

[midalake]

9 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

The 50 tones and full tones audio features just give a general sense of ID stability and frankly only a rough idea of low, mid, or high conductivity. 

It seems as years go by, that some are obsessed with having an exact Tid number .  Which I think is a mistake. 

Mentioned before, but I only hunt in one tone at the beach. But my personal accept mode is anything +1 and greater. If there is one thing to be learned on the Equinox it is, numbers cannot be trusted. Especially in: Mineralization, EMI, Salt Water contact, Depth, trash, and some days just because. 

How will the Deus do on Tid?  I suspect it will struggle in some areas too.    

[Jeff McClendon]

34 minutes ago, midalake said:

It seems as years go by, that some are obsessed with having an exact Tid number .  Which I think is a mistake. 

Mentioned before, but I only hunt in one tone at the beach. But my personal accept mode is anything +1 and greater. If there is one thing to be learned on the Equinox it is, numbers cannot be trusted. Especially in: Mineralization, EMI, Salt Water contact, Depth, trash, and some days just because.     

Unfortunately for me and many turf hunters, dependence on numerical target IDs are not an obsession. Instead, their importance is imposed on me by the restrictions set by municipalities and land owners in the arid conditions (more like drought) that I often hunt in. Digging with a shovel or anything close to a shovel will leave turf damage here and is not allowed in most cities. Making sure that I at least know the conductivity of the potential target is super important along with knowing how to "dig" with a probe or long shafted screwdriver. Accurate numerical target IDs are really important to me. So are accurate tones that can tell me the target's conductivity and possibly its shape, surface (smooth or uneven) and its condition/orientation. The Deus 1 full tones and the Equinox full tones can do those things to some degree when I am able to ignore their "quality".

Not being an engineer, do I have this next statement right? Are the tones produced by these detectors less "filtered" than the target ID numbers as in, are the tones generated first and then the target ID numbers?

Being a professionally trained European/North American classical music musician means that I actually listen to the tones that a detector produces from the standpoint of a musician and not just a detector user.

The Deus 1 PWM full "tones" actually sound more like static filled noise to me. There are discernible pitch changes but the amount of distortion of the pitches is just too much for me. The Deus 2 Square Wave tones sound quite a bit cleaner and more defined so far but the cleanliness may detract from actual target characteristic identification.

The Equinox full tones are certainly much cleaner and defined than Deus PWM generated full tones. However, I too find it hard to exactly match the 50 individual pitches to clear numerical equivalents even on well known targets like US nickels. The full tones used on the Equinox have to fit into a frequency range and that has compressed the intervals between some of the tones so close together that a differentiation is hard to hear even for me. Very few of the tones are a full half step apart (like on a piano keyboard) and most are quarter tones or micro tone intervals.

Very interesting topic.

I for one, am delighted to see the Deus 2, Legend, Equinox and Vanquish having stable numerical target IDs.

[F350Platinum]

Just a note here, I'm not an expert by any degree, although I have a lot of experience with the Equinox over the last year, my first full year detecting. I get out 3 -5 times a week, for 4-7 hours. At average that gives me well over 1000 hours on the Equinox thus far.

The past couple of days I've been digging in an old house site, and while usually I find that Zincolns are 19-21, I've been digging a ton of aluminum beer bottle caps that are exactly that range. I'll dig all 16-18 IDs because they have been half Reales and once a Trime. I dig a lot of pull tabs!

I've never seen mercs or larger silver coins at anything but 25+.

Welcome to the forum @Loren, have you done a Meet and Greet intro? Context is everything here, and while the Equinox and Deus report well, I'm sure there are differences world wide.🙂 

It would be great to have a detector that always told you what you have exactly, but I think it's more of a "Holy Grail" pursuit considering the unknown or differing metallurgy in just about everything. 🤔 From what I've read and watched so far the Deus Deux looks pretty good, but I'm not ready to let my Equinox 600 gather dust just yet. 

[NCtoad]

4 minutes ago, Jeff McClendon said:

Unfortunately for me and many turf hunters, dependence on numerical target IDs are not an obsession. Instead, their importance is imposed on me by the restrictions set by municipalities and land owners in the arid conditions (more like drought) that I often hunt in. Digging with a shovel or anything close to a shovel will leave turf damage here and is not allowed in most cities. Making sure that I at least know the conductivity of the potential target is super important along with knowing how to "dig" with a probe or long shafted screwdriver. Accurate numerical target IDs are really important to me.

So are accurate tones that can tell me the target's conductivity and possibly its shape, surface (smooth or uneven) and its condition/orientation.

Not being and engineer, do I have this next statement right? Are the tones produced by these detectors less "filtered" than the target ID numbers as in, are the tones generated first and then the target ID numbers?

The Deus 1 full tones and the Equinox full tones can do those things to some degree when I am able to ignore their "quality".

Being professionally trained European/North American classical music musician means that I actually listen to the tones that a detector produces from the standpoint of a musician and not just a detector user.

The Deus 1 PWM full "tones" actually sound more like static filled noise to me. There are discernible pitch changes but the amount of distortion of the pitches is just too much for me. The Deus 2 Square Wave tones sound quite a bit cleaner and more defined so far but the cleanliness may detract from actual target characteristic identification.

The Equinox full tones are certainly much cleaner and defined than Deus PWM generated full tones. However, I too find it hard to exactly match the 50 individual pitches to clear numerical equivalents even own well know targets like US nickels. The full tones used on the Equinox have to fit into a frequency range and that has compressed the intervals between some of the tones so close together that a differentiation is hard to hear even for me. Very few of the tones are a full half step apart (like on a piano keyboard) and most are quarter tones or micro tone intervals.

Very interesting topic.

I for one, am delighted to see the Deus 2, Legend, Equinox and Vanquish having stable numerical target IDs.

Very interesting take on tones from a musician’s point of view.  Thanks

[NCtoad]

2 minutes ago, F350Platinum said:

Just a note here, I'm not an expert by any degree, although I have a lot of experience with the Equinox over the last year, my first full year detecting. I get out 3 -5 times a week, for 4-7 hours. At average that gives me well over 1000 hours on the Equinox thus far.

The past couple of days I've been digging in an old house site, and while usually I find that Zincolns are 19-21, I've been digging a ton of aluminum beer bottle caps that are exactly that range. I'll dig all 16-18 IDs because they have been half Reales and once a Trime. I dig a lot of pull tabs!

I've never seen mercs or larger coins at anything but 25+.

Welcome to the forum @Loren, have you done a Meet and Greet intro? Context is everything here, and while the Equinox and Deus report well, I'm sure there are differences world wide.🙂 

It would be great to have a detector that always told you what you have exactly, but I think it's more of a "Holy Grail" pursuit considering the unknown or differing metallurgy in just about everything. 🤔 From what I've read and watched so far the Deus Deux looks pretty good, but I'm not ready to let my Equinox 600 gather dust just yet. 

If you’re digging in high iron trash areas don’t discount discount lower id’s as the adjacent trash will pull the id down.  I’ve dug mercs as low as 18.  In that particular instance there was an old rusty bicycle fender right next to it.