This Is A Post From Geotech About The AQ On Thomas Dankowski's Forum

[schoolofhardNox]

33 minutes ago, tvr said:

Did you read the disclosure statement for the LTD? It is at the bottom of the following post and acknowledging understanding of it was part of getting on the early buyer's list.

 

Of course we did. BUT.... I never expected so lack luster customer support when things went wrong. Also never dreamed a company would use the cheapest parts they could get. Engineered to fail 😄. I assumed that they meant that you could not work the machine as hard as you usually work a beach machine. Gentle is one thing, extreme bubble wrapped kit gloves is another thing. And not even a thank you to the people who volunteered to do this, just the same corporate bull we get from normally much bigger companies in other areas. I wonder if whoever had that broken shaft ever got the replacement yet? This is not the way to expect people to help you get a machine refined for production.

[Steve Herschbach]

I agree cobill. The rigorous testing may have been in multiple environments, but certainly not all, and actual underwater testing was far from rigorous in any case. It was also said early on the electronics were done, there would be no changes. Well, except the pulse delay change being extended on the low end, but the label not reflecting the change, so you need secret knowledge to know that if you believe the label. Do people even know which version they have? And according to Carl “We have just fixed a circuit failure mode.” So no, the electronics were also still a work in progress.

I agree people should have known what they were getting into. I certainly did, which is why I insisted on paying the same as everyone, instead of getting a freebie. I wanted no conflict of interest if this all came down as it has, and was under no illusions. But I honestly did expect better, and that one statement up front is clearly designed to make people think the risk was lower than it turned out to be. With the failure rate seen, it’s been a crap shoot as much as anything as to how well it’s worked out for people.

[Steve Herschbach]

57 minutes ago, schoolofhardNox said:

Of course we did. BUT.... I never expected so lack luster customer support when things went wrong. Also never dreamed a company would use the cheapest parts they could get. Engineered to fail 😄. I assumed that they meant that you could not work the machine as hard as you usually work a beach machine. Gentle is one thing, extreme bubble wrapped kit gloves is another thing. And not even a thank you to the people who volunteered to do this, just the same corporate bull we get from normally much bigger companies in other areas. I wonder if whoever had that broken shaft ever got the replacement yet? This is not the way to expect people to help you get a machine refined for production.

The people who bought into this were often some of Fishers longest term customers, and most faithful customers. I’d put me in that category. This was an unusual deal, and it deserved personal oversight and communications from Tom Walsh, not radio silence. The message I see being sent as a marketing guy is “we got your money - good luck!” Ricks obviously washed his hands of the situation.

Presumably they are just busy with more important tasks. I’ll not take it personally, but just what does that say really about FTs attitude about the high end market? Knowing corporate think like I do, I’d not be surprised if we are viewed as high maintenance bitchers and moaners, unappreciative of the good deal we were offered. So much easier to just ship pallets of detectors to Walmart and Costco. And far be it from the high and mighty to descend from their lofty towers and engage their customers directly. I’m just a dumb business guy from Alaska, but I’ve got more business savvy than these so-called big players, and honestly I am embarrassed for them.

I really need to leave this be now. It’s occupying too much of my mind space for a topic that I need to move on from.

[schoolofhardNox]

2 minutes ago, Steve Herschbach said:

The people who bought into this were often some of Fishers longest term customers, and most faithful customers. I’d put me in that category. This was an unusual deal, and it deserved personal oversight and communications from Tom Walsh, not radio silence. The message I see being sent as a marketing guy is “we got your money - good luck!” Ricks obviously washed his hands of the situation. Presumably they are just busy with more important tasks. I’ll not take it personally, but just what does that say really about FTs attitude about the high end market? Knowing corporate think like I do, I’d not be surprised if we are viewed as high maintenance bitchers and moaners, unappreciative of the good deal we were offered. So much easier to just ship pallets of detectors to Walmart and Costco. And far be it from the high and mighty to descend from their lofty towers and engage their customers directly. I’m just a dumb business guy from Alaska, but I’ve got far more business savvy than these so-called big players, and honestly I am embarrassed for them.

I was one of those non Fisher guys that was willing to give them a shot at winning me over. As far as I see, it was a lose/lose deal for them. The other loyal Fisher guys would have hopped all over this machine if they did it right, and us non Fisher guys would have been brought over to Fisher, some for the very first time. What business does not want converted customers? The damage they did to the company reputation is not easily overcome. It really is a specialty machine that most people would not buy, so why disregard your small pool of potential customers?  I agree, I'm sure they really do not care in the long run, but I bet Alexandre does care and some of their engineers care, but the corporate part has no worries I'm sure. I can't blame Rick for any of this, as he could not do anything about it and is probably as dumbfounded as we are in how this played out. Now with all the other MF machines ratcheting up the beach wars, that specialty PI may just become a past memory. I will stick with my GPX.

 

[cudamark]

Having used a Gold Bug and a CZ, I was expecting a quality built Fisher detector that did what they said it would do. IMO,  I got neither with the AQ Impulse. Good luck FT trying to sell me another machine.

[tvr]

9 hours ago, cudamark said:

Having used a Gold Bug and a CZ, I was expecting a quality built Fisher detector that did what they said it would do. IMO,  I got neither with the AQ Impulse. Good luck FT trying to sell me another machine.

 

For you, cobill and possibly others:

Unfortunate that your experience with the AQ LTD has not been positive. Mine has been. And as Steve mentioned, there is more potential to unlock. I hope that potential comes to market.

[phrunt]

It remains to be seen if it will ever come to market and if it does how many buyers will there be? They couldn't even remotely sell the 100 AQ Limited units at a discounted cost before people knew of all of the issues with them, back when they were thought to be something really special and unique.  There would be very few potential buyers who don't know about the mess that has gone on.  You could play these games with a low end detector sold in a big box store as the kids parents would be blissfully unaware of the history of the detector they're about to buy, but the AQ isn't really a kids toy like First Texas are used to selling now, it's target market is well informed on what's been going on as its been blasted over the internet on various platforms, this one has played out in the public eye. 

Do the right thing First Texas, release a public statement saying any "existing" owners of the Impulse AQ Limited will be provided a final unit upon release, these people paid good money for this detector and very few see their money well spent.  It's a disaster of your own creation, they are beta testers, they always were beta testers and you worked out a scam that tricked them into paying to be beta testers, and poor Rick was likely taken for a ride too, a trusted well known name and First Texas product fan with many connections on forums and so on to flog them off for you instead of selling them yourself.

I saw this today, so for those waiting for it's actual release, hopefully it is this year, but maybe not.

[cjc]

On 1/13/2022 at 7:05 PM, tvr said:

So here are some of my thoughts on what "useful discrimination" is related to the AQ LTD:

Back when I got a CZ20 to start getting serious about finding gold at beaches, it was tuned so that nickels were mid-tone. I could choose to detect and dig only the mid-tones with the theory that doing so could maximize return on effort at the beach by only digging the range where most of the gold was. Thinking back on that recently, I was inspired learn what I could with the AQ LTD with respect to useful discrimination.

 

I've been hunting nearly all in all metal mode with the AQ LTD. Shortly after I got the AQ LTD I took a trip to one beach specifically to see how the AQ handled a beach filled with hot rocks and learn a little bit on how I could handle them using its discrimination capabilities. I had not done much with discrimination since then until the last two weeks. Had a long trip to a wide open beach and I figured it was time to really learn the discrimination capabilities. One thing I previously figured out is that it is difficult to get rid of hair pins on any setting; I still found that to be true, yet they do give that classic double beep that makes them easy to walk away from. I decided to pick a couple of targets and set up to hear the tone shift in tone mode that would tell me to walk away from those targets that otherwise do not give a lot of clues.

 

The problem targets I picked to set up with were some small screws that I had dug while thinking they were going to be good targets, but were not. Setting up to identify those screws as "no dig" in tone mode had me at Reject = 7; ATS just shy of 9. I spent a few days tweaking the settings but staying pretty close to those; ending up with Reject 7 and ATS just a hair above 8. If I chose to just dig the sweet high tones and none of the warbles or grunting sounds then about the only iron I was digging was the occasional hair pin and a couple of round washers. The hairpins were still walk-away signals because of the clear double beep. I was not digging tent stakes. I also wasn't digging pennies, dimes, quarters, lead sinkers or soda beer cans! I dug most targets for nearly a week to see what the audio was like. With those settings, zinc pennies, small fishing sinkers and most of the tent pegs were a warbling mid-tone, copper pennies, big sinkers, dimes, quarters, soda and beer cans and the rest of the tent pegs were low tone grunting. The biggest problem target remained bottle caps. I’m not doing well identifying them for what they are.

 

After the last couple weeks I think I'm pretty confident that the AQ LTD does have useful discrimination and that if I want to just focus on the most likely gold range and not dig coins, cans, sinkers, tent pegs or .50 caliber shells; I can do that. There is a chance I will not dig that huge monstrous gold ring when set like I'm set, but the focus will be squarely on looking for the majority of gold jewelry and not digging otherwise. In the middle of fresh drop season, I think it could be a productive way to go!

 

I agree with you 100%TVR.  With practice, with very careful handling of the back connectors, this machine has a lot of  potential.  If you have used a lot of other pulses and  know what to listen for (peaked, centered, narrow responses) the audio of this detector can be very good to you.  It has the accurate characteristics of an Eric Foster circuit and because of that smoothness and detailed reporting--tells you a lot.  The discrimination may sound off on some iron and some wire but the information to avoid these targets is there.  Ive had problems with stability in salt conditions.  These may  or may  not have come from corrosion on the coil contacts.  I've just invested in a small  coil with the hope of running this machine successfully under  fast salt conditions. Fisher First Texas has made a good try of making this detector despite its problems--I feel that the potential outweighs the problems.  It has TDI Pro depth, great target information and  something that closely resembles discrimination.   Alexandre's refinements to Eric's circuit do tell you what's iron and what isn't.  He has also responded to my enquiries--something I appreciate a lot.  More so than any of the new VLFs coming out--this machine is a true "secret weapon"--the one I had hoped my waterproof TDI Pro would be.  Point being that when I pick this detector up---turn it over--give it a shake, look at it closely--Im forced to admit that it does what its supposed to--quite well in fact--and can be used. FT has responded to the physical problems Ive had with this machine fast and with exactitude--they have stood behind this product as constituted. That's enough for me and I would buy another if I could. 

cjc

[cjc]

On 1/13/2022 at 11:54 AM, Bill (S. CA) said:

I'm going to throw in a different take on the AQ since, like Steve, I've had it with First Texas.  While I agree that the AQ needs a major redesign, I blame the need for this on one thing.  "Shill field testers."  How many times have we heard about new detectors that are being tested worldwide by supposedly qualified field testers and right when the machines are ready to come out there is a sudden and abrupt halt?  The reason is always the same, something to the effect of "minor changes, adding useful features, etc."  Baloney.  The problem is that most guys who test these units are just looking to get free stuff so they rubber stamp units.  I'll give you a perfect example.  A number of years ago a very prominent metal detector manufacturer contacted me and one other detectorist in the United States to test out a new detector.  We were told that it performed flawlessly in the lab and that a team of European hunters had all signed off on the detector.   To make a long story short, it took each of us less than an hour to determine that the detector was impossible to hunt with.  It took over three months of our testing various software upgrades and changes before we were able to get it working.  All of that was done for zero compensation and no free stuff.  And it was worth it because the detector became one of the best selling metal detectors of all time.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not beating my chest and bragging.  My point is that if these manufacturers were serious about building detectors that work they would use genuine, honest testers instead of these ass kissing shills they go to every time.  On this forum alone, a number of you would be ideal candidates.  But for some unknown reason the manufacturers simply don't seek out the honest types of testers required to really evaluate new detectors.  I mean, come on, the mechanical problems of the AQ have been visible from the start and verified by users.  First Texas could have hired Joe Beechnut to fix everything, right?

And so it goes.  I'll be honest, I think the AQ is dead.  And even if it does hit the market, who cares?  The Deus II has taken any buzz that the AQ had and squashed it.

Bill (S. CA

Bill --Im not a shill field tester--Im the harshest one out.  But this detector has brought me around--it does what it's supposed to do very well.  The rest--the physical  problems are (to me) secondary.  As long as it gets  me the gold and  my carelessness doesn't break it too easily--Im good.  Overall--given some battery life, maybe some kind of a guard for the connectors--this is the best beach machine out--and probably will be for a long time.   I appreciate the risk FT has taken to bring  this tech to market and there's no way Im going to begrudge them for these minor issues.  That would be pure ingratitude.  Based upon my 40+ years of swinging--this is a gold getter if ever saw one. 

cjc

[tvr]

On 2/23/2022 at 11:26 PM, cjc said:

I've just invested in a small  coil with the hope of running this machine successfully under  fast salt conditions.

Please keep us posted on what you observe with the small coil in salt waves.