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Is There Something Special About The Garrett 24k Ground Balance?


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Simon does your GM1000 have the forced GB feature via holding in the disc on off? I pushed for this right from the start, it was introduced in later machines with no fan fair.  An absolute must in an auto GB only machine. 

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1 minute ago, Jonathan Porter said:

Simon does your GM1000 have the forced GB feature via holding in the disc on off? I pushed for this right from the start, it was introduced in later machines with no fan fair.  An absolute must in an auto GB only machine. 

Unfortunately no, I was an early adopter so I lack that feature and it's not worth buying a new one to get it. 😞 I agree, that would improve the usability a bit by speeding things up as mine can take up to 10 pumps to balance sometimes, although I'd rather hold down a button to disable the GB at a locked point, I'd find that more useful.

I contacted Minelab about seeing if they could just update the firmware on my machine to give me that feature, they're not offering that service which is a disappointment as I know for a fact it has a USB service port inside the battery housing, they can update the firmware if they want to but then we'd not want to buy a new one 🙂

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Don’t think it’s about forcing you to buy into a new one but more to do with developing tools for the end user to upgrade which requires a lot of R&D dollars etc, when you consider the vast majority of Monsters end up in Africa where there are largely no computers or even service centres it ends up in the not viable basket. Just my opinion of course I really have no idea behind the real resistance but would say its down to resources on a mass selling extremely simple product into markets where the upgrade would never be used anyway. 

But I will say this, the new forced GB feature transforms the Monsters usability, the auto GB is really good over the ground but the second you lift it away it goes out then takes ages to get back again, in most cases I would just power cycle and let the forced GB at start up deal with the problem rather than pumping endlessly waiting for it to get its act together.  It is also very handy to force a GB on a suspect hot rock, giving you more info to help make an educated guess.

The GB on the Garrett 24K sounds interesting especially here in Australia where even our quiet ground can be quite variable. 

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Yes, I offered to ship mine into Minelab at my cost both ways if they could update the firmware for me, that was also denied.

The 24k would be very interesting in Australia, from what I saw the Monster didn't get a very positive response in Australia, probably from the most vocal anti VLF types there 😛  The 24k could be a bit better of a performer I think.  I wish someone like you JP could get your hands on one to experiment.

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Monster sells really well here Simon, I think right now it is the most popular volume selling VLF on the market world wide. The key is its simplicity for new chums.

 

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Garrett is on a winner with the 24k then, they just need to market it well as it hasn't had the publicity it deserves yet.  It's just as easy to use as the Gold Monster, if not easier as it's ground balance is superior and it has coils that aren't bump sensitive at all. 

It also has concentric coil support, I run the Whites 24k 6.5" Concentric on mine at the moment as Garrett are yet to release their Concentric coil, and if Nel comes out with the coils for it like they've said they will it has a distinct advantage there too.   I wouldn't mind getting the little 4x6" DD for mine as well if I can source one.

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8 hours ago, phrunt said:

Garrett is on a winner with the 24k then, they just need to market it well as it hasn't had the publicity it deserves yet.

 Seemingly lost in all this is the fact that this detector was released 3 1/2 years ago (Sept-Oct 2018, right?) by White's, and (AFAIK) it's the same detector now that Garrett is selling it.  I realize there has been occasional praise (Steve H. for example) in that time period, but for the most part it seems like a secret.  Apparently White's demise (although that was well over a year after its release) and the detector's disappearance from the market for ~2 years explains it some.  Throw in the fact that it's a specialty detector.  An apples to apples comparison is the ML Gold Monster 1000.  Was that so calmly released and received?  Still, with all the hubub we're hearing now for the XP Deus II (and don't forget the pre-release frenzy of the ML Equinox), I'm surprised it's taken so long for this to get exposed.  I blame you, Simon.  :laugh:

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The problem with new prospecting VLF's is everyone already has a VLF they're reasonably happy with, they're used to using it and it finds them gold.  They see little reason to get another.   The other problem is they've all been so similar, they'll all find gold to about the same size, micro flakes you have no hope of picking up with your fingers.

Usually the reason you'd get a different one is it has features that suit you.  Detectors like the Equinox have also made dedicated VLF's for prospecting less necessary and you can get by without even having one and do very well.

Where the 24k to me is different is it's handling of the hot rocks, and while I don't have all that difficult ground I can imagine because it handles the hot rocks here better it would handle difficult ground better too? It sounds like from the limited number of users so far in hotter ground that this is the case.

Whites struggled to gain any ground with it as the writing was on the wall with them, people expected them to collapse and perhaps were worried about warranty? I wonder if many even thought Whites was capable of a cutting edge detector anymore.  Whites never really did much in the way of marketing and promotion of it.  It was released and just blended in to existing detectors, there wasn't a flurry of information about it and a bunch of people using it showing people what it's capable of. 

Garrett has made some changes to the electronics since the Whites design, I'm not sure what they changed and I've never used the Whites version of it but one thing is for sure their coils will likely be better if for no other reason the way they're manufactured would improve them.  Tboykin said he cringed when he went into the coil assembly area at Whites, very dated.

What Garrett needs to do is let people know whats different about it over the competition, why they should buy it.  The ground balance is the obvious difference to me that even in my mild ground have found to be fantastic, the way it works and the fact you can lock it.   It has a gold meter up the top of the screen to tell iron and possible gold targets and also has target ID, although the Target ID scale is different to that of a coin machine but still goes up to 99, I guess adjusted for gold targets.  The vSAT is also a good feature that I'm experimenting with at the moment, it can boost the sensitivity even higher.  It has non-motion pinpoint, adjustable threshold, Ground grab and ground balance lock, adjustable discrimination and a Tone ID mode, and all of that and you don't really need to use any of it as a beginner, you can just turn it on and use it like a Gold Monster, but if you need settings you've got them.  Having the battery box like it does makes for a quite well balanced detector too.

They really need to focus on the lack of bump sensitivity with the 24k, as the Minelab's are plagued with that, the 24k is not.  Sure you can lower the sensitivity and fiddle around to lower the bump sensitivity on the Minelabs but you can run the 24k flat out and have virtually no bump sensitivity.  That's a huge plus as each time you set the detector off by bumping the coil you're potentially missing gold, they're like false signals and if you get enough of them you expect them and occasionally one of the false signals may have been a nugget and you dismissed it as just another bump.

Another big plus to the 24k is the coils, at the moment the range isn't all that big, and those lucky enough to get Whites coils have the 6.5" Concentric which is a brilliant coil, there was also the 4x6" DD and 8x14" DD, I wish I had those two coils, I could put that 8x14"DD to use straight away.  Garrett just has the 6x10" DD so far, great coil too, no bump sensitivity and a nice solid design.  Nel has also indicated they're making coils for it, although they're already overdue, but that seems normal for Nel.

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1 hour ago, phrunt said:

What Garrett needs to do is let people know whats different about it over the competition, why they should buy it.

I wonder if they really know the 'value' they have in that detector.

I remember (hopefully clearly...) back in the mid-late 70's.  White's was advertising their 5 kHz Deepseeker (also called 'Master Hunter') VLF as the gold detector and their 15 kHz Groundhog (in the 80's called 'Gold Hunter') as a coin detector!  Now that Steve has pointed out the relationship between target size and optimal frequency, maybe they were effectively pushing the 5 kHz model because it sounded off well on large gold (which was more available then, although not plentiful).  Anyway, within about a 5 year period the roles flip-flopped.  I think at least part of the reason for the change-of-heart was the success the 15 kHz Groundhog had in Australia.

That was mostly Charles Garrett back then, with his pal Roy Lagal as advisor and now they're gone.  :sad:  But who at Garrett (or who among their supported field crews) is a true native gold detectorist?  They have plenty of coin and relic hounds -- see the plethora of videos.  They had some of the Gold Rush TV show cast (yeh, Todd Hoffman hawking your products -- how wise is that?) using their pans and I remember a YouTube video where Freddy Dodge swung an ATX, but I think he admitted he hadn't done much detecting.  I recall the Ace Apex pre-release video by an Aussie but he was finding coins.  Maybe he is their authority on native gold detecting?

Simon, IMO you can be their expert gold detectorist spokesperson.  The least they would do is fly you over some (free) gear, like a hat and finds pouch.  :laugh:

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I think they'd benefit from a gold detectorist in Australia, that's a market they need to make some headway in, if indeed the GM is a good seller in Australia the 24k should be the better seller if it had the exposure it deserves.

Aureous would be my choice, he's done extremely well with his 24k in Australia and has been using one for a long time.  Some of his previous posts over the years on here demonstrate how well you can do with a 24k in Australian soil.  Although it takes a certain type of person to be a "youtube" personality, I'm not that type of person.  I have no interest in doing anything like that.

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