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The Next Legend Update Explaining The Delays In Release


phrunt

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I doubt you'll be disappointed, it does sound like it's going to be a good detector.  You shouldn't be concerned about updates though, they're easy to do and I'm sure the Legend will have many of them come out over the next year or two, you can take the Simplex as an example of that.

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2 hours ago, Jeff McClendon said:

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I also like the idea of two different multi frequency weightings for Park and Field modes. Personally, I don't see the need for two different frequency weightings in Gold prospecting mode....... and find the two Gold modes on both the ORX and Equinox to be redundant except for making one of them a sort of "custom" mode.

I wish they would take the Goldfield Mode and split it with a Relic Mode that uses a lower weighted kHz SMF & optional full range single kHz, Keep the VCO & add 2 tone as an audio option,

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2 hours ago, phrunt said:

I guess what they do know though is the second it's out there will be real world testing by end users and not just carefully selected testers who are obviously not going to put up videos of them testing it where it's not performing well, so people will be comparing it to the competition in the real world, Nokta want it the best it can be before its released for this very reason as these early end user videos will either generate a lot of sales, or prevent a lot of sales.

I think you've hit the nail on the head.  N/M has seemed a bit defensive with this release.  They likely don't want units going into users' hands, having to trust those users to install updates before operating them (and failing to do that, making videos, complaining like spoiled children,...  you know, the modus operandi in the social media and instant gratification age).

If it weren't for XP's concurrent (more/less) release, I don't think their re-issuing of release dates, etc. would be quite as big of a deal.  XP has really raised the bar in regards to releases, IMO, and that means for *all* manufacturers no matter how modest or lofty that m'fer is.  (Pun intended.  :laugh:)

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From my standpoint NM is being very prudent in their approach. If their diligence results in a (delivered) machine that works correctly, without the need for updates to correct an issue, then both the company and the customer are well served.

I like the additional park and field modes and look forward to other enhancements not mentioned by Dilek. As mentioned by another member, I’d like to see the addition of a mineralization bar as well as a relic mode. As things stand, I will be purchasing a Legend at some point in the near future.

Having read several comments throughout my internet travels (some of which have been quite unflattering) regarding the lack of an “iron bias” feature, I am a bit confused about the concern some have expressed. Perhaps my confusion stems from the fact that I’ve never used the competitor’s machine (featuring that option) but it (iron bias) doesn’t seem like a feature that I’d desire. 

My understanding is that “iron bias” is a filter that weights (ferrous or non-ferrous) the signal given for a target that has both characteristics (ferrous and non-ferrous) and that the degree of weighting chosen can make an “iffy” target signal as ferrous, or non-ferrous (depending upon the degree of weighting chosen by the user). (Please correct me if my understanding is not correct)

I’ve seen several experienced users caution others to use “iron bias” very sparingly, or not at all, since its use can result in good targets being passed by.

If my understanding (of iron bias) is correct, and there is a good chance that my understanding is not correct, then it seems (to me anyway) that the best way use iron bias is to leave it off and make the dig decision based on the signal received and user inclination. In fact, it seems that the use of iron bias would muddle the signal - making a dig decision more apt to be one of pure chance.

I much prefer the fe-check and the ability to set tone breaks, notch volume, etc...
 

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4 hours ago, JCR said:

I wish they would take the Goldfield Mode and split it with a Relic Mode that uses a lower weighted kHz SMF & optional full range single kHz, Keep the VCO & add 2 tone as an audio option,

I like this idea.  They had a dedicated relic machine that Monte and Keith Southern helped with that was supposed to be killer in iron.  Some like the idea of expanded iron ID, I'm kind of on the fence, I'd prefer not to dig iron for the most part, but Keith stated that an expanded iron TID range can help determine the difference between nails and say a gun barrel.  I'd be happy to dig gun parts, so maybe there's something to that.  Need lots of audio options, I love hunting in full tones with my EQX800, not 2, 3 or 4 tones, even though that's the world I came from for the most part (did have an Etrac and a Sovereign in the past). 

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I don't think I'd look at it as a work in progress as much as an opportunity to stuff in a few more bells and whistles to increase it's value add based on field tester feedback (which ultimately increase sales).  Was the EQX also a work in progress when they did likewise?

People seem to forget that the same issue occurred with the Equinox, which delayed it from announcement at Detectival to shipped in about a six month window of limbo.  Major changes were made that greatly benefited the end users.  I appreciate that Nokta provides status updates (do not believe Minelab did while the EQX was delayed).  The updates were more then just software as Dilek mentioned on her update.  

Hopefully they send the testers the updated units so they can complete their testing and share their findings and comparisons.  

A lot of whining about the lack of adjustable iron bias.  I don't think it would be a bad idea to have an "Advanced" menu that unlocks some of these user configurable settings. They should do something like the did on the MMK in the 3-Tone mode, whereas if you kept your sensitivity at 89 or less it was in a hyper fast iron bias setting, at the loss of depth of course.  If you went above 90 sensitivity, you gained  depth but lost the hyper-speed.  It was great for hunting in sea of nails.  The 89 sensitivity 3-Tone easter egg setting was also great at mitigating sites with heavy EMI.

Another feature that would be interesting would be a customizable mode whereas you could run SMF and pick what 2-3 frequencies from the stock frequencies that this custom mode would run.  IIRC you could do that with the White's V3i.

 

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If you look at the masses of complaints across Facebook over these delays its really becoming quite a PR disaster for Nokta, and the only reason it has become a PR disaster is because they've been so open about where they're at with it, and when they don't meet their own expected time frames it's causing issues.  The Legend has been a long drawn out process, remember the naming contest a couple of years ago? then nothing, people asking what is going on but silence for years until news breaks the Legend is on it's way with some sort of time frames given, and not met, then given and so on...

The only reason we know about the delays is Nokta gave too much information.  To me the naming contest was Nokta saying the multi frequency detector is coming soon, so it's been years.  The naming contest should have been held a couple of months ago. 

They've really annoyed a lot of people.  People are getting their money back from dealers and moving on and many disgruntled customers, all sorts of grief it's caused which is why Dilek keeps addressing it in the update videos responding to the upset people, it's become that much of an issue.  I'm sure it will be forgotten about once it hits the market and people get their detectors and if they like it the momentum will build again and people who backed out may buy it again.

I really like that Nokta communicate with customers and listen to them with suggestions and even how they just engage with customers like Dilek using Facebook and forums and talking to their customers.  That's as good as it gets, it's unrivaled.

Fingers crossed the Legend is worth the wait, it sounds like it will be.  Half these disgruntled people will be just so excited about getting their hands on it and can't wait 🙂  I think we as end users have no idea how complex and difficult these detectors we use are to make so difficult to understand how long things take.

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2 hours ago, Loren said:

I always run my Equinox 800 at FE2 of 0 (lowest possible Iron Bias setting). To me the only value the setting has is when I hand my detector to a beginner to try. It definitely helps beginners ignore those iron falses and learn what a real signal is.

I think F2=0 is not a real signal...
The pictures below show the work of FE (maybe F2 works the same way):

sketch-1584748212757.thumb.jpg.ce6df5ca783cb27f0e42d2b3182622e0.jpg

sketch-1584748223669-768x499.jpg.d0b37d565e5fdbb3298cc667c2e2be15.jpg

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   Personally, I don't mind the delay, if in NM's opinion, (and bank account) they are adding value! I like the format they have used so far; actually listening to their customer base! What a novel idea!!

  I, like many, don't do "bookface" as it's just too much! Fine for the wife though, to keep up with distant family!

   I've never been one to jump on the new detector release bandwagon anyway! There are always people better suited for the next "cutting edge" model, that have that covered! Many of which, who make a nice bit of coin doing so! To each their own!!👍👍 

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It's only a delay as they made it a delay, that's been my point, revealing too much information and engaging too much with the customers hasn't worked out so well this time.  It's also caused personal verbal attacks on Dilek where people have been outright mean which is just not acceptable.  We seem to live in a world where people must have everything now, so when they announced it people wanted it in their hands, as time went by anger built people didn't have it.   The good bit about this for Nokta is what company doesn't want people so desperately wanting their product they get angry they can't have it?

I'm sure there was a lot learnt with this release and mistakes won't be repeated.

For all we know the Deus 2 could have been delayed by a year or more, they only let us know it existed when it was a completed product ready to market, even then it had logistics delays but who doesn't now? We expect that 🙂

We are right at the pointy end of the Legend release now, and its great even at this point they're doing improvements, and with Nokta's track record there will be many more improvements to come after its release, not just fixes for bugs but more actual improvements.  I just really hope Nel and or Detech end up being able to make coils for it, that's my decision maker.

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