Is Owning A Gold Claim Worth The Headache And Do You Have One?

[GotAU?]

44 minutes ago, Clay Diggins said:

Claim Jumping is the act of challenging another locator's prior mineral rights by overclaiming them and challenging their paperwork in court. Claim jumping is traditionally heavily frowned upon by the courts.

Higrading or High Grading is the act of taking minerals from a mineral property without the permission of the owners. Higrading is a problem in virtually all operating mines and it's rampant in small placer operations. Although higrading also applies to uninvited prospectors most convictions are of employees who were caught higrading gold or gemstone operations.

Higrading is theft of minerals. Claim jumping doesn't involve theft of minerals but instead is an attempt to invalidate another's right to the minerals. In essence Claim Jumping is the attempted theft of mineral title.

Here's the most common legal definition of "Claim Jumping":

The location on ground, knowing it to be excess ground, within the staked boundaries of another claim initiated prior thereto, because law governing manner of making location had not been complied with, so that location covers the workings of the prior locators, is what in mining circles is known as “claim jumping.”

https://cite.case.law/nev/42/302/

There used to be a lot of problems with unsavory characters trying to steal claims with paperwork schemes. Some people still try it today to intimidate but they aren't going to be successful in court. The courts really shut all that down years ago. I think that and movies are reason the term "Claim jumping" is so misunderstood today.

 

That’s what I thought too, and reading some of the old stories and such people who mined someone else’s claim were highgraders, a label used as a noun.  A lot of people use “claim jumpers” though, it’s gonna be hard to correct them all!

[GhostMiner]

18 minutes ago, Clay Diggins said:

Claim Jumping is the act of challenging another locator's prior mineral rights by overclaiming them and challenging their paperwork in court. Claim jumping is traditionally heavily frowned upon by the courts.

Higrading or High Grading is the act of taking minerals from a mineral property without the permission of the owners. Higrading is a problem in virtually all operating mines and it's rampant in small placer operations. Although higrading also applies to uninvited prospectors most convictions are of employees who were caught higrading gold or gemstone operations.

Higrading is theft of minerals. Claim jumping doesn't involve theft of minerals but instead is an attempt to invalidate another's right to the minerals. In essence Claim Jumping is the attempted theft of mineral title.

Here's the most common legal definition of "Claim Jumping":

The location on ground, knowing it to be excess ground, within the staked boundaries of another claim initiated prior thereto, because law governing manner of making location had not been complied with, so that location covers the workings of the prior locators, is what in mining circles is known as “claim jumping.”

https://cite.case.law/nev/42/302/

There used to be a lot of problems with unsavory characters trying to steal claims with paperwork schemes. Some people still try it today to intimidate but they aren't going to be successful in court. The courts really shut all that down years ago. I think that and movies are reason the term "Claim jumping" is so misunderstood today.

 

Thanks Clay. I guess that I misused the term as many do but you clarified it. High Grading would be the appropriate term for me to use on what was happening. We have people taking turns watching the claim for now. We also may have identified the suspect. He will get a good talking to. 

[GhostMiner]

12 minutes ago, GotAU? said:

That’s what I thought too, and reading some of the old stories and such people who mined someone else’s claim were high graders, a label used as a noun.  A lot of people use “claim jumpers” though, it’s gonna be hard to correct them all!

Claim jumper just sounds so "OLD WEST" LOL.

[GotAU?]

25 minutes ago, Clay Diggins said:

Claim Jumping is the act of challenging another locator's prior mineral rights by overclaiming them and challenging their paperwork in court. Claim jumping is traditionally heavily frowned upon by the courts.

Higrading or High Grading is the act of taking minerals from a mineral property without the permission of the owners. Higrading is a problem in virtually all operating mines and it's rampant in small placer operations. Although higrading also applies to uninvited prospectors most convictions are of employees who were caught higrading gold or gemstone operations.

Higrading is theft of minerals. Claim jumping doesn't involve theft of minerals but instead is an attempt to invalidate another's right to the minerals. In essence Claim Jumping is the attempted theft of mineral title.

Here's the most common legal definition of "Claim Jumping":

The location on ground, knowing it to be excess ground, within the staked boundaries of another claim initiated prior thereto, because law governing manner of making location had not been complied with, so that location covers the workings of the prior locators, is what in mining circles is known as “claim jumping.”

https://cite.case.law/nev/42/302/

There used to be a lot of problems with unsavory characters trying to steal claims with paperwork schemes. Some people still try it today to intimidate but they aren't going to be successful in court. The courts really shut all that down years ago. I think that and movies are reason the term "Claim jumping" is so misunderstood today.

 

It sounds like pre-dating claims earlier than others’ discovery dates, especially if they were made well before the 90-day grace period expired is another  “claim jumper” scheme that is still used.

[GhostMiner]

5 hours ago, rvpopeye said:

Stick around GM we're on your side !  😏  Nobody's pickin' on ya,,,,,well , yet anyway. 

Besides now we're all wantin' ta hear more of that Story about a man named Jed  !

Ya didn't even get to the Ellie May part yet........😜

(I have a feeling you will have some of the crew here camping out up there when it warms up after reading that Log Book ?...)  

Sorry - I had a bad morning. Apologies to Steve. 

[rvpopeye]

G-Miner

Once you see what can be done with a GPZ or a 6000 all hope is lost , you will then realize you MUST HAVE ONE  maybe two ,,,,OK three MAX ............! 🤩

 I think it's a secret but you know that guy Gerry ? (I think he can smell gold ! Or it might be taste ?  I'm not sure yet......)

[Cascade Steven]

 

My apology in advance for a long read.  Addressing the question of whether one should stake a claim, I would like to humbly and respectfully offer a little “food-for-thought” from a retired exploration geologist’s perspective.  My background includes exploration for porphyry copper deposits and also “world class” size base metal sulfide deposits, including work on the “Red Dog” deposit in Alaska.  Thus, I approach the subject from that perspective.  The following comments are only one person’s view based on that person’s perspective and life experiences.  Other people may and will have different experiences and thus different perspectives.

I wish to reiterate what others have stated, specifically, claim ownership (should I stake a mining claim) depends on your goals.  From my perspective there are at least five primary questions to be answered: 1) is the ownership for fun or for profit; 2) am I interested in placer gold or lode (hard rock) gold; 3) how much time do I have to invest in the hobby; 4) how much money do I want to invest in the hobby; or 5) do I want a mining claim for prestige (i.e. I own a “piece of history”)?  The answer to these questions will help focus and define the ultimate answer as to whether a person should own a mining claim.

Education is also an important foundation building factor.  This education should include a knowledge of: either hard rock or placer geology (depending upon ones mining interest); sampling techniques; appropriate and allowable mining methods based upon the area and anticipated size of operations; mining laws, both federal, state, and county; other  mining regulations from other government agencies such as the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), U.S. Forest Service, Federal Environmental Protection Agency, and appropriate state and county agencies; mining claim filing procedures; allowable assessment work; expenses that will be incurred during the research phase, location phase, exploration phase, permitting phase, mining phase and processing phase; safety issues and reclamation procedures and costs.

Communication is also an important issue.  I have learned that federal and state agencies like to be informed in advance of any significant activities.  Cutting a trail is often considered a significant activity.  They do not like surprises.  With advance warning they will generally help the miner navigate the regulations so that the miner can accomplish his/her goal while satisfying all existing regulations.  I have found it wise to talk to the local agency’s minerals specialist before starting any significant work.  Working with them can save a lot of headaches, heartache, and unnecessary expenses and legal problems.  Regarding communicating with the public, several vendors offer orange and black metal mining claim signs that can be posted on either placer or lode claims.  I have found these do help reduce the inadvertent or accidental claim entry.

Addressing placer claims first: if a person is only interested in casual weekend gold panning or metal detecting they should ask two questions: 1) are there local areas that have gold bearing streams where the steams have been set aside from mineral entry and are open to the general public for recreational gold panning?  As an example, there are several such areas in the Western Cascades of Oregon.  If so, there may be no need for a mining claim.  If no such areas exist ask the second question: are there local clubs that one could join and access club claims?  Many gold-bearing regions have local prospector clubs that a person can join.  Annual memberships usually range from $25 to $35.  There are also regional and national clubs available but be aware that the memberships are substantially greater, sometimes in excess of $100 per year. However national clubs provide access to claims nationwide.

As others have stated previously, if one is interested in placer mining as a profession or money-making venture then mining claims are necessary.  If one chooses this route, I would encourage the person to research the area of interest examining past literature on placer gold mining in the area as well as a due diligence research of both county courthouse records and Bureau of Land Management (BLM) records.  Please be advised that I have found the BLM records recording status to be as much as 6-months behind the county records.  It is also advisable to determine which land managing agency has jurisdiction over the land of interest, and contact them for information on both claim location and regulations regarding placer mining and significant ground disturbance.  Each agency has specific regulations and the BLM is tasked with overall authority.  There are also state and county agency regulations to consider as well as Federal Environmental regulations. 

Lode mining claims are a completely separate issue.  They require the same due diligence, knowledge base and communication as for placer mines. However, they require greater amounts of labor and money if they are to be operated on for-profit basis.  I know of many prospectors that have staked lode mining claims purely for recreational purposes.  They work them on the weekends and do not expect to make a profit.  However some do dream of “striking it rich”. 

Some people re-stake an old unpatented abandoned lode claim with existing underground working.  In these instances safety is of paramount importance.  If this is one's intent, I strongly encourage that person to take a course in underground safety with a focus on abandon underground mines.  There are many hazards present in both abandon mines and operating mines.  There are also courses available in small scale underground mining that should be considered.

I hope that my experience will help someone either now or in the future.

Regarding “claim jumpers”: Professionally I have found that patience, tolerance, kindness and a thorough knowledge of the law work wonders.   If it is the weekend prospector or “would-be” miner, I don’t worry about it.  If I meet them on the claims I try to be friendly and spend a lot of time listening.  Usually if the people learn that the area is claimed, they search elsewhere.  As others have mentioned, if a person collects a few grains of gold, it is no big deal to me.  I simply smile and wish them the best, and if possible try to direct them to an area that is open to public panning or potential location.  During my tenure as an exploration geologist I was blessed with never having to deal with a true claim jumper that had set up a full scale mining operation on one of the company claims.  However I did hear of others with such issues.  In those cases the situation was addressed through legal means and not confrontation.

Hope this helps.

[Hard Prospector]

I've owned claims and have  had partners in some of them.  I really don't care if some guy swings through once in a while and picks up a gram'r here or there......good for him.   A good haul these days requires processing  lots of material (picks, shovels, highbankers, drywashers) which takes time and effort. Something detectors can't  typically do.

[GotAU?]

35 minutes ago, Cascade Steven said:

 

My apology in advance for a long read.  Addressing the question of whether one should stake a claim, I would like to humbly and respectfully offer a little “food-for-thought” from a retired exploration geologist’s perspective.  My background includes exploration for porphyry copper deposits and also “world class” size base metal sulfide deposits, including work on the “Red Dog” deposit in Alaska.  Thus, I approach the subject from that perspective.  The following comments are only one person’s view based on that person’s perspective and life experiences.  Other people may and will have different experiences and thus different perspectives.

I wish to reiterate what others have stated, specifically, claim ownership (should I stake a mining claim) depends on your goals.  From my perspective there are at least five primary questions to be answered: 1) is the ownership for fun or for profit; 2) am I interested in placer gold or lode (hard rock) gold; 3) how much time do I have to invest in the hobby; 4) how much money do I want to invest in the hobby; or 5) do I want a mining claim for prestige (i.e. I own a “piece of history”)?  The answer to these questions will help focus and define the ultimate answer as to whether a person should own a mining claim.

Education is also an important foundation building factor.  This education should include a knowledge of: either hard rock or placer geology (depending upon ones mining interest); sampling techniques; appropriate and allowable mining methods based upon the area and anticipated size of operations; mining laws, both federal, state, and county; other  mining regulations from other government agencies such as the Bureau of Land Management (BLM), U.S. Forest Service, Federal Environmental Protection Agency, and appropriate state and county agencies; mining claim filing procedures; allowable assessment work; expenses that will be incurred during the research phase, location phase, exploration phase, permitting phase, mining phase and processing phase; and safety issues.

Communication is also an important issue.  I have learned that federal and state agencies like to be informed in advance of any significant activities.  Cutting a trail is often considered a significant activity.  They do not like surprises.  With advance warning they will generally help the miner navigate the regulations so that the miner can accomplish his/her goal while satisfying all existing regulations.  I have found it wise to talk to the local agency’s minerals specialist before starting any significant work.  Working with them can save a lot of headaches, heartache, and unnecessary expenses and legal problems.  Regarding communicating with the public, several vendors offer orange and black metal mining claim signs that can be posted on either placer or lode claims.  I have found these do help reduce the inadvertent or accidental claim entry.

Addressing placer claims first: if a person is only interested in casual weekend gold panning or metal detecting they should ask two questions: 1) are there local areas that have gold bearing streams where the steams have been set aside from mineral entry and are open to the general public for recreational gold panning?  As an example, there are several such areas in the Western Cascades of Oregon.  If so, there may be no need for a mining claim.  If no such areas exist ask the second question: are there local clubs that one could join and access club claims?  Many gold-bearing regions have local prospector clubs that a person can join.  Annual memberships usually range from $25 to $35.  There are also regional and national clubs available but be aware that the memberships are substantially greater, sometimes in excess of $100 per year. However national clubs provide access to claims nationwide.

As others have stated previously, if one is interested in placer mining as a profession or money-making venture then mining claims are necessary.  If one chooses this route, I would encourage the person to research the area of interest examining past literature on placer gold mining in the area as well as a due diligence research of both county courthouse records and Bureau of Land Management (BLM) records.  Please be advised that I have found the BLM records recording status to be as much as 6-months behind the county records.  It is also advisable to determine which land managing agency has jurisdiction over the land of interest, and contact them for information on both claim location and regulations regarding placer mining and significant ground disturbance.  Each agency has specific regulations and the BLM is tasked with overall authority.  There are also state and county agency regulations to consider as well as Federal Environmental regulations. 

Lode mining claims are a completely separate issue.  They require the same due diligence, knowledge base and communication as for placer mines. However, they require greater amounts of labor and money if they are to be operated on for-profit basis.  I know of many prospectors that have staked lode mining claims purely for recreational purposes.  They work them on the weekends and do not expect to make a profit.  However some do dream of “striking it rich”. 

Some people re-stake an old unpatented abandoned lode claim with existing underground working.  In these instances safety is of paramount importance.  If this is one's intent, I strongly encourage that person to take a course in underground safety with a focus on abandon underground mines.  There are many hazards present in both abandon mines and operating mines.  There are also courses available in small scale underground mining that should be considered.

I hope that my experience will help someone either now or in the future.

Regarding “claim jumpers”: Professionally I have found that patience, tolerance, kindness and a thorough knowledge of the law work wonders.   If it is the weekend prospector or “would-be” miner, I don’t worry about it.  If I meet them on the claims I try to be friendly and spend a lot of time listening.  Usually if the people learn that the area is claimed, they search elsewhere.  As others have mentioned, if a person collects a few grains of gold, it is no big deal to me.  I simply smile and wish them the best, and if possible try to direct them to an area that is open to public panning or potential location.  During my tenure as an exploration geologist I was blessed with never having to deal with a true claim jumper that had set up a full scale mining operation on one of the company claims.  However I did hear of others with such issues.  In those cases the situation was addressed through legal means and not confrontation.

Hope this helps.

Steven, thanks for a very informative post. Your understanding of mining law and practice, and your opinions and knowledge of working conflicts out with diplomacy undoubtedly made you a very likable  and respected professional in your field.

You made some very good recommendations regarding mine safety classes people who want to work or prospect around mines should take. There are many qualified instructors and even online courses out there where one can get MSHA Part 46 (above ground) and 48 (below ground) certified training.  I had to complete Part 48 for an abandoned mine survey and mapping project I worked on, and even though it was several years ago that I took the class, it was very educational and is still useful for me today.

The one thing that would make me really shy away from staking a recreational claim though are the financial responsibilities and liabilities for it, especially for having to do reclamation if closing it down.  Selling it and passing on that responsibility to an accepting buyer is one thing, but it would be financially risky to take on a previously worked claim, especially with abandoned underground, without a good understanding of the cost of having to restore and close it as one can’t simply abandon a mine and walk away from it as in days past. Definitely something to think about before applying for a claim…

[GB_Amateur]

10 hours ago, Cascade Steven said:

Regarding “claim jumpers”: Professionally I have found that patience, tolerance, kindness and a thorough knowledge of the law work wonders.

This can also apply to the 'high-grader', i.e. if you are out prospecting, thinking you are on unclaimed land and are approached by the supposed claim owner.  Sure, a couple percent of people are  pure a__holes but most have some tolerance and even compassion.  The 'non-confrontational' mode mentioned really can lead to positive solutions, or at worst, neutral solutions.  Although I haven't experienced this in regards to mining claims, it has happened when detecting on what I thought was public, accessible property.

Good stuff, Steven.  Thanks for that post.