Deus 2, Deus 1, Equinox 800 & GPX 5000 Compared On Various Size Gold Nuggets

[geof_junk]

1 hour ago, blackjack said:

Yes g_j I laughed at you reply but I hear you, I do dislike digging. I's a conundrum that requires some serious thought though. I spoke to my cousin in W.A. he's found more gold than most, he's firm on the 6000. In worked ground on a recent trip to Meekatharra between him and his wife he said they found something over 600 pieces for 138 grams. Yes that's 600 holes at least but it's also $14,500 Au

That works out to about 0.25 gm average size speck. Just counting the small ones that similar to my old GP-3000 of about 0.3 grams so if he allows for the odd larger nuggets in his yield it should give you a target size to aim for in a patch, then think of the depth and size of a bigger one or two in the area.

[blackjack]

13 hours ago, geof_junk said:

That works out to about 0.25 gm average size speck. Just counting the small ones that similar to my old GP-3000 of about 0.3 grams so if he allows for the odd larger nuggets in his yield it should give you a target size to aim for in a patch, then think of the depth and size of a bigger one or two in the area.

 

14 hours ago, phrunt said:

@Gerry in Idaho could likely give you an in-detail description of gold types missed as he does classes on it demonstrating it to people, it tends to be porous or prickly gold is worst affected, but it's not only that, there is more even normal looking bits its quite weak on.

I don't really think the 6000 is all that much better than the 5000 on gram stuff, unless it's the type of gold the 5000 is weak on, the right composition piece and I think they would be pretty similar in performance and because the 5000 can benefit from larger coils it will inherently have the depth advantage for the bigger deep gold hunters.

I filmed a video showing the holes in detecting on the 5000 and 4500 a while ago, showing nuggets they should easily pick up that they either didn't at all, or were very weak on, I'll try find the video, it really is surprising the gold the older GPX models can miss.  I also demonstrated in the video how changing timings from for example sensitive extra to fine gold can change the results somewhat, changing timings can close up the holes on some gold to a degree, but then some timings work better than others so you really need to cover ground a few times in different timings.   It's the big improvement made with the 6000 was closing these gaps.

Now I am focused on its flaws here, on a good amount of gold its perfectly fine and handles ground better than anything else there is but the reason I think many are happy with the 6000 after having the 5000 is that these holes are fixed more so than the small gold improvements, yes they are there too, but the holes being fixed is bringing more gold to the surface than the extra small gold capability, the gold most are finding isn't that tiny or deep the 5000 would miss it all.

Thanks phrunt I would like to see that video, I also remember reading that you thought the GPX 4500 was in the same class as the 5000. Do you still think that ? g_j I do understand where you are coming from, mentioning bigger nuggets, are you suggesting that the older models are more likely to find a deeper large nugget than the 6000, something I suspect may be true but have no experience to back it up. My problem is simple my sniping partners have moved to detecting using 6000's they have had success and are crowing about the virtues of the 6000 telling me that a 5000 won't cut it. This is where my problem comes in, budget, I can't justify the cost of a 6000 even second hand, but given the success of the 6000 the price of a second hand 5000 has come down to a point that I'm willing to pay especially when you consider the amount of coils and accessories that can come with a used unit. In Tasmania the nuggets mostly are small but they are finding a good proportion of 1 gram + Assay results of gold that I've sold previously show that we have high purity usually around 95% most nuggets are quartz free but do sometimes have a small amount of ironstone. I was of the opinion that I would go as old as a GP 3500 but given the price of used 5000's I'm not sure about that any more, the advice is usually to get the latest model you can afford. But if a good 3500 came up at a suitable price, would it be a good choice. Thanks

[geof_junk]

My rules are 50% location, 45% Operators skills and 10% appropriate Detector and Coil.

That means there has to be gold there, and if the user of the detector correctly used, you will find gold but the bit left behind you might get them by changing detector and coil.   .........   By the time you get happy with your skills you will be able to justify looking for a better (though the gain maybe small) equipment from the gold found. 

 

NB That adds up to 105% and you need it to find Au metal.

[blackjack]

1 hour ago, geof_junk said:

My rules are 50% location, 45% Operators skills and 10% appropriate Detector and Coil.

That means there has to be gold there, and if the user of the detector correctly used, you will find gold but the bit left behind you might get them by changing detector and coil.   .........   By the time you get happy with your skills you will be able to justify looking for a better (though the gain maybe small) equipment from the gold found. 

 

NB That adds up to 105% and you need it to find Au metal.

I think the 6000 may eliminate some percentage of operator skill ?

[Gold Catcher]

1 hour ago, blackjack said:

I think the 6000 may eliminate some percentage of operator skill ?

The 6000 is close to magic, but will not eliminate operator skills. No detector does for that matter. You will miss alot of gold, even with the 6000, or perhaps in particular with the 6000, if you do not adhere to general detecting practices, including strict coil control and slow steady swing speeds. You would be amazed how quickly a 6k investment can become worthless. 😁

GC

[Steve Herschbach]

The proven reality in the field is actually simple. Detectors in the GPX 4000 - GPX 5000 class hammered ground for 20 years and going back to that ground with the same machines gets little or nothing. People going back over that ground with the GPZ 7000 and GPX 6000 are cleaning up what the older GPX series missed. A 4500/4800/5000 can help with hot rocks that bother the 7000 and 6000, but the problem there is it is eliminating those hot rocks that caused them to miss the gold in the first place. There is no free lunch. For every hot rock there is a class of gold target, as gold grades imperceptibly into the ground signal. Simply ground balancing a detector causes gold to be missed, and there is gold being missed to this day. But Minelab has been filling those detection “holes” as well as they can be filled for a long time now, and the gains to be had are minimal at best with whatever they come up with next.

So yeah, you can save money buying a 4500, but are you really saving money, if it leaves you with crumbs while your mates fill their pockets with gold? In general you can treat a large number of detectorists as a pretty good indicator of what works and what does not. People tend to hold onto the old tech for a bit, but once it is shown something new puts more gold in pockets, a tipping point is reached and a shift occurs. Everyone, and I mean everyone I know, is using a 6000 or a 7000 or both. And it’s because it’s the better value proposition that results in more money, not less, compared to running older models. More upfront cost, but more gold found puts the good hunters ahead in the game.

The nature of the gold to be found determines what detectors are best for the application. There are many locations where there simply are no large nuggets. So let’s draw an arbitrary line. 1 gram. And two classes of detector.

When considering a GPZ 7000 or GPX 6000, if the area you hunt has a good possibility of larger gold at depth, say 1/4 oz and larger, then lean GPZ 7000. But if it’s all under a gram, the 6000 may actually do better. Leaving X-Coils out of the equation, the 6000 will hoover up small gold a 7000 misses.

Step down to the GPX 5000 / Axiom class. If you have the possibility of larger deeper gold, then a 5000 outfitted with an 18” mono will have the edge. If the gold is predominately small, the Axiom will have the edge with similar size small coils versus the 5000.

Another way to look at it is if I was chasing a six ounce nugget at max depth I’d probably look at the 5000 with big coil or the 7000. If I’m cleaning up smaller gold in well pounded areas, I’d be looking more at 6000 or Axiom.

None of this is black or white, just shades of gray and generalities.

[Steve Herschbach]

I had the pleasure of watching many people from all over the world detect for gold at Ganes Creek, Alaska and my own operation at Moore Creek. The difference between knowledgeable operators and the rest was astounding. 10% of the hunters got 90% of the gold and I am not exaggerating. A great detector means absolutely nothing if the operator does not have a good ear and good technique. The number one problem? Horrible coil control. Too high or too fast or both. The other biggie? An inability to hear faint targets, indicated by a pouch full of big stuff and no small stuff. Faint signals don’t mean just small targets, they mean 3 ounce nuggets two feet down. I do think some of this was simply an older crowd and poor hearing. And a large portion inattention bred by boredom. Boredom also contributed to the poor coil control. How else do you account for somebody waving a coil a foot off the ground? Nothing says I don’t want to dig another nail more than that! 

Which summed up means I can tell a good nugget hunter by just watching them a short while. A good operator is focused, coil under control. You can see how intent they are, and most likely they actually enjoy running a detector, even if no gold is being found. They like what they are doing. Other people find detecting boring, but make themselves do it, because they want to find gold. Chances are they will never be good at it. It’s that ability to keep your head in the game for hours on end that sets the good operators apart from everyone else, and skills honed with constant detecting. Going out a week or two once a year? That was what killed most of the visitors I saw. Some even were breaking a brand new detector out of the box for the first time on arrival for their long planned very expensive once in a lifetime trip. That is like playing a violin for the first time in front of a thousand people and not bothering to practice beforehand - good luck!

Honestly, some people just suck at detecting and no detector can make up for that. If they do find gold it’s just pure blind luck.

[blackjack]

Thanks Gold Catcher, yes I agree no detector will ever eliminate operator error, there is no substitute for experience. Steve confirmed what I suspected regarding the comparisons between the older models and the 6000. This is something that my cousin Lang pointed out, he was finding gold on ground that had been hammered in previous years by earlier models with his 6000. Given the small size we average here in Tasmania and the recognized ability of the 6000 to find it, a 5000 would be a compromise. For now I will stick with my Equinox 800, a unit that I find gold with, I'm confident and comfortable with it.  As usual I think I've got the right advice from DP. Thanks to abenson for the video and phrunt, g-j, Gold Catcher and Steve for there valued advice to me, as well as others who contributed.

[phrunt]

I will try find the video when I get home in a few weeks, me personally I’d use an Equinox over an older model GPX for small gold under 1/3 of a gram in milder soils, it would likely do better. The 11” coils pretty deep on 1 gram stuff in the right soil.