Dilek Addressing Iffy Signal’s Legend Vs. Equinox Video

[☠ Cipher]

Accurate, or damage control? You decide 

[abenson]

Damage control IMO. Unless you're not happy with the Equinox build quality. I see no reason to get a Legend and dump my Equinox.

[Knomad]

I really hope the Legend is in fact comparable to the Equinox, simply to push Minelab to keep advancing, that said based on all the videos thus far it does not appear to be, but for a low priced alternative it looks good.

As for Her Excuse, I don't buy it, it appeared to me that it just did not have as high a general processing speed, or recover speed. I also prefer a Negative TID number to a bar graph, that is a personal preference, But 90% of the time I nugget hunt in all metal with the Equinox 800 mine 2 program, and find I can often tell from a radically changing number that it is an iron target, BUT, I can also often tell that there is Both a Ferrous and Non Ferrous target close together, it just takes swinging in multiple directions and experience, AND No Filtering, So I reserve any notching to Extreme small iron and Extreme Hot Rock sites, and even then limit notching to just the worst negative numbers.

I hope the Legend has all the capabilities of the Nox 800, but if the processor is slower that is unlikely.

NOW, with all that said Minelab needs to improve it's Iron Identification in general, Iron Bias or not it too often gets fooled by large iron and can slaw.

[Jeff McClendon]

I posted this over on Iffy's Youtube site in response to his latest nail board test.

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I paid very close attention to Mike's testing both yesterday and today. I believe that he has proven in these tests that Nokta Makro has set its fixed iron bias setting a bit too high.

Let's go back to the roll out of the Equinox. Many people complained a ton about iron falsing, too many steel crown bottle caps sounding too good..........it was justified. Minelab had not set the original Fe iron bias range aggressive enough.

They later released the alternate F2 iron bias range which was much more aggressive and as Iffy showed in this video, a setting of F2=6 made the nails almost stop falsing. It also masked the non-ferrous targets more and made the results be very similar to the Legend. Counting every left to right sweep as 2, with the coins in both positions, I counted 12 to 13 out of 16 for the Equinox F2=6 and 12 to 13 with the Legend with fixed Iron Bias. The Equinox with F2=0 was 14 to 15 using the same settings.

Now think about the Vanquish roll out......great IDs in clean ground. Lots of masking of targets however especially iron masking. However......virtually no reports of lots of steel crown bottle caps being dug.

Dilek posted a response to Mike's testing on Nokta Makro's Facebook page and for lack of a better choice or words, she nailed it. The problem for those of us that hunt in more iron than your casual hunter: the fixed iron bias setting that Nokta Makro chose was chosen to keep the detector from falsing too much on iron in the hands of less experienced detector users. Dilek also said since there is already an Iron Bias setting which is currently fixed and not adjustable, it can be made adjustable in the future with a software update. Dilek also praised Mike for his testing and for being honest in his testing. So relax people. Mike is a great tester. By great, I mean, not once has he criticized any detector, dismissed it as junk, or told you which one to buy. He is just showing as best he can what these detectors can do.

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Also, check out Hunter GT's Part 2 Review with Deus 2 11" coil testing results posted on this forum in the Deus 2 section. Summarizing.........8" max on a US dime in moderately mineralized dirt, the coil has to basically touch a sub .1 gram nugget with the coil in an air test with no mineralization involved, and the 11" coil struggled with Monte's nail board test and with similar scoring system as above, to my ears scored at best 13/14 out of 16...... Hunter GT is an XP dealer by the way and yet he posted these results..........amazing.

Many on this forum and some others are struggling with EMI using Deus 2.........

If you are a beach hunter/diver or have to regularly hunt in iron trashed sites away from EMI, Deus 2 looks really good. If you need the outstanding ergonomics and minimal weight for physical reasons.....again Deus 2 or Deus 1 or the ORX looks good.

For rock solid build quality/waterproofing, the handle vibration feature as an adjunct to needing audio responses when submerged or for the hearing impaired and for a great price, when Nokta Makro straighten out the iron bias setting the Legend looks fantastic.

For those of us that know the Equinox like the backs of our hands, I don't see an upgrade with these other detectors for urban coin and jewelry hunting or open field relic hunting without too much iron, for gold prospecting, hunting anything in moderate to high iron mineralized ground or for hunting more iron mineralized beaches where one cannot run Deus 2 Beach Sensitive.

Totally just my opinions

[GB_Amateur]

Idiot proofing underestimates the idiocy capability of idiots, to the detriment of everyone else.

[abenson]

1 hour ago, Loren said:

She makes some good points about not jumping to conclusions based on limited tests and evidence.

But I find it very weird how much they are deflecting against having a user adjustable iron bias setting. In fact, I almost suspect there could be some issue preventing them from giving the user access to the iron bias setting. I mean, surely the in-house tests models they used must have had a debug menu that allowed them to adjust the internal iron bias setting for testing purposes. 

The claim that they found an "optimal" / one-size-fits-all iron bias setting doesn't sound like a genuine claim, surely they know that being able to adjust to a variety of conditions is better, as they could just have the machine default to the "optimal". It really sounds like an answer fabricated for the purpose of justifying them having it locked.

Saying they don't want users to miss targets from too high an iron bias setting feel disingenuous as well. If that were the case, they would allow users to at least lower the setting for even heavier iron target densities...

It is my wild unfounded conjecture that there might be some short coming in their Iron Filtering process that makes enabling user control of it problematic, purely based on how suspicious and manufactured their answers feel to me in objection to allowing users to alter a value that already exists internally on the machine.

Sounds to me like they don't know how to do it. But I could be wrong. I've been wrong before.

[phrunt]

Nokta dismissed needing the iron bias feature, and made out it was a bad thing to have it as their magic wand didn't need it but if enough people insisted on needing it they may add it as a feature update.  It looks like it's a needed feature.

I wonder if Iffy will be selected to test future machines.

[abenson]

9 minutes ago, phrunt said:

Nokta dismissed needing the iron bias feature, and made out it was a bad thing to have it as their magic wand didn't need it but if enough people insisted on needing it they may add it as a feature update.  It looks like it's a needed feature.

I wonder if Iffy will be selected to test future machines.

Nokta Makro's loss if they don't use him. Dumbest thing a company can do is get rid of someone that's going to tell it like it is. Did iffy jump to conclusions, maybe. We've all done it. But I for one would rather have control over iron bias. I think I'm smart enough to know when and how to use it.

[phrunt]

I don't at all understand Nokta's logic saying the iron bias setting is dangerous to use as it can make you miss targets if you adjust it wrong, it's not a simple setting to adjust on the Nox, they've made it quite hidden really, it's an advanced setting and those that use it tend to understand it and the default setting is their definition of the optimal setting Nokta are talking about. 

If they want to dumb down the Legend by taking away advanced controls like that then it's not really their target market, a dumbed down detector where the user doesn't have control of advanced settings should be the Simplex Multi Frequency replacement, not a detector trying to compete with the big boys that have this level of control.

By their logic the sensitivity setting is dangerous to use, lower your sensitivity too much to quieten down your detector and you'll miss targets too.  Maybe they needed to follow the CTX's lead and do auto sensitivity too, but do no manual adjustment as you know, sensitivity is a dangerous setting to use.

You can tell they're fuming Iffy released that video, but why care? As if it wasn't going to come out anyway, as soon as it got into the hands of the public this same video would be out there by multiple people.

I think there is more to it, they knew people wanted iron bias, it's been a big point of discussion the past few months about it not having it, why keep resisting adding it with excuses if it can just be added so easily? Whatever happened to listening to customers, not making decisions for them. 

As someone that uses detectors for prospecting I don't want any iron bias, their optimal setting isn't optimal for me, I want it as low as possible.

[JCR]

It is still very early, the general release into users hands hasn’t really even happened yet. As field reports come in I think we and NM will have a much better idea of how the Legend should evolve. I would bet they are already working on a contingent update. My expectation is to purchase an early release of a generally well thought out, first generation SMF detector that mirrors the capabilities of the best that is already on the market. I also expect the performance to be enhanced & refined as time goes on. NM has shown over and over it is active and listening. They have also shown they are capable.

I think the phenomenal success of the Simplex has been a big background factor in the initial vision of what the Legend should be. That is a wise start. I want a lot more and think we will see it in future updates. The introduction of Deus II will help drive this also.

There are other well known and respected users who will weigh in soon. The Legend is just now getting established. It will grow.