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Important Update - Iron Bias Setting For Legend!


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5 minutes ago, mh9162013 said:

Because many people have a tendency to fiddle with adjustments when they shouldn't or when don't fully understand what's going on or how the adjustment works.

Then is the Legend a beginners detector? Is that the market they're targeting?  I don't think so, it's got high end performance by the looks of it.  You can't cater to experienced users and beginners too without compromise, do you want the compromise to be for the advanced users or the beginners is the question Nokta need to ask themselves.

The Simplex is a very feature and settings rich detector aimed at the beginners market, it's done well for itself even though it's not near as easy to use as other beginners detectors.

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27 minutes ago, phrunt said:

You can't cater to experienced users and beginners too without compromise, do you want the compromise to be for the advanced users or the beginners is the question Nokta need to ask themselves.

N/M did ask themselves this question and they answered it. But apparently, they seemed to answer that question incorrectly.

N/M might be falling victim to the "when you try to ride 2 horses at once, you end up falling off both."

I don't think the issue here is N/M answering this question seemingly incorrectly. I think the issue is how N/M responded to the public's apparent desire for adjustable iron bias.

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The good thing for the end users that required the Iron bios setting is they've now accepted it's a feature some users want, so it's a non-issue now.  They're adding it in a future update which is great.   Iffy was a bit of a rogue tester and achieved the result he clearly wanted, getting that iron bias feature added so good on you Iffy.  He probably didn't even mean to intentionally cause this stir but the end result is beneficial for the users who wanted it anyway 🙂

I hope the Legend ends up being a detector I want, but I'm not buying another detector just for the sake of it, I need to see it's a detector I want.  I'm still very impressed Nokta got this one over the line.  Dilek showed a video of the first truckload of them leaving the Nokta factory overnight here and it was a good feeling to see it happening, the more development into metal detectors we get the better, we don't  want any more of the brands to go stagnant.

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3 hours ago, phrunt said:

The difficult thing is only Nox users know much about how this setting changes things, so without using the setting it's difficult to understand why people desire the setting. 

Iron bias is simply how much discrimination do you to apply to ferrous signals. 

If you ever used a Whites model like XLT, DFX or V3/V3i that had a "bottle cap reject" filter....that is an adjustable iron bias.   If your detector had an algorithm or special program for flat iron, that would also be a type of iron bias.   Its a useful feature as it allows the operator to determine how the iron signals will be filtered/discriminated.

I expect Nokta will fundamentally offer an adjustable bottle cap reject feature with a little more complexity since it will have to work across multiple frequency selections.

HH
Mike

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Mike_Hillis said:

If you ever used a Whites model like XLT,... that had a "bottle cap reject" filter....that is an adjustable iron bias.

Interesting point, because the White's XLT was single frequency.  I think I've read here in some posts that Iron Bias requires simultaneous multi-frequency.  Maybe the way it's implemented on some detectors (e.g. the ML Equinox, where the selectable single frequencies don't give you the option), that's the case.  From what you say, though, it sounds like SMF isn't a requirement.

Iron bias was discussed extensively around the time (early 2018) when the Equinox was released, and I recall a post by Steve H. that White's "bottle cap reject" was similar.  It just didn't click with me that this White's feature was on a single frequency detector besides some of its SMF's (which you also mentioned).

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Iron bias is only available on the Nox in multi frequency, it's believed because a single frequency doesn't give the detector enough information for it to work effectively.  It's assumed it takes multiple data points from each of the frequencies being used.  The manual to the Nox clearly states its only available in multi frequency.

The only detector I've got with bottle cap rejection is the Teknetics T2 with it's 3B mode, it was pretty terrible and never really worked well for me at making bottle caps inconsistent and it also made other targets inconsistent too such as deep silvers.

It's a mode you'd only want to use if you were in an area with a high concentration of bottle caps, so you turned it off for normal use and on to suit conditions, much like the Iron bias setting, you want it sometimes, and you can adjust with multiple levels how much bias it is running.

I've never owned or used a Whites detector.

It'll be interesting if Nokta make their iron bias equivalent work in single frequencies too.

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45 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

I think I've read here in some posts that Iron Bias requires simultaneous multi-frequency. 

I guess it depends on on how how iron bias works. Heck, it could be as simple as simply adding or subtracting X number of points to a given VDI reading.

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2 hours ago, Mike_Hillis said:

Iron bias is simply how much discrimination do you to apply to ferrous signals. 

If you ever used a Whites model like XLT, DFX or V3/V3i that had a "bottle cap reject" filter....that is an adjustable iron bias.   If your detector had an algorithm or special program for flat iron, that would also be a type of iron bias.   Its a useful feature as it allows the operator to determine how the iron signals will be filtered/discriminated.

I expect Nokta will fundamentally offer an adjustable bottle cap reject feature with a little more complexity since it will have to work across multiple frequency selections.

HH
Mike

 

 

Does such an animal exist?  Lot of that flat, rusty tin junk at a lot of the sites I enjoy detecting [I don't enjoy the flat rusty iron and tin though].

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In practical terms, Iron Bias controls how much extension you will hear in the signal tone when you swing the coil over alloys.  Iron is the ultimate alloy--a highly diverse signal thats also magnetically connected to the surrounding ground.  Another way to see Iron Bias is that it's the "grain" of the signal tone over iron and adjusts how cleaner metals will stand out.  To use it effectively it helps to have a basic understanding of signal types:  "clean" metal--that is composed of only a few metals, diverse alloys, like aluminum slag or a screwcap, versus magnetic type alloys--such as steel or the ferrous, non ferrous combination of a bottlecap.  While I do trust N/M's judgement in selecting a single setting for the Legend (especially from a beginner's standpoint)--Im in the "yay" camp in that I like the extra fidelity at cap infested shorelines.  Fine tuning this control lets me pick out aluminum and gold from these caps while others are digging everything.  Im very excited about this detector and can't wait to see how it operates in these types of conditions.  Based upon what I've  heard of the audio--it sound like a great dense junk gold hunting machine. 

cjc's

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  • The title was changed to Important Update - Iron Bias Setting For Legend!

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