Important Update - Iron Bias Setting For Legend!

[cjc]

11 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

Nokta has actually won here because nobody is talking about how good the iron bias implementation is on Legend, they're just clamoring for it to be a   djustable as if it's a given that it is an effective ferrous anti-falsing filter. 

Looks and sounds pretty good to me...

cjc

 

[GB_Amateur]

26 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

...They're just clamoring for it to be adjustable as if it's a given that it is an effective ferrous anti-falsing filter.

I think you're forgetting that some want the adjustability to minimize iron bias (or turn it off completely, if that's possible), just like many of us do with the Equinox.

[Chase Goldman]

9 minutes ago, cjc said:

Looks and sounds pretty good to me...

cjc

 

You lost me Clive.  The nailboard test does not test the effectiveness of iron bias, it tests recovery speed and can inform on the adverse impact iron bias can have on recovery/masking.  Good Legend performance on the nailboard test, does not mean the filter is effective against what it is supposed to do, which is to mitigate mixed ferrous falsing.  Or have I misunderstood your comment above?

[Chase Goldman]

50 minutes ago, GB_Amateur said:

I think you're forgetting that some want the adjustability to minimize iron bias (or turn it off completely, if that's possible), just like many of us do with the Equinox.

Not forgetting anything.  I want it adjustable too.  I'm just saying people are solely arguing the point of off/adjustable vs. fixed on Legend, rather than whether the filter is effective a limiting falsing in the first place.  We already know that Nokta fixed the filter to a single setting and that affected nailboard test results and is now making it adjustable because of the backlash.  Most are simply happy that Nokta is going to provide adjustability, ignoring whether the filter is effective for those who do want to implement it (yes it is a moot point for those who will also keep it off).  But for those of us who have found the Equinox iron bias implementation to be useful, it doesn't matter how adjustable it is if it does not effective at doing what it is supposed to do.  That's all I'm saying.  So making it adjustable is step 1 (and a good step 1 by Nokta for listening and willing to admit, though begrudgingly, that it should have listened earlier), we need to see and verify the adjustable IB filter actually does what its supposed to do and does it well.

[phrunt]

I'm just happy Nokta listened and is going to implement it, I once contacted the competition about adding a manual ground balance option to their multi frequency machine that lacks it because they thought their multi frequency technology was good enough not to need it.  Well, it turns out in some situations having the option to ground balance would still be handy, and for some people critical for functionality.  They just dismissed my query with a short reply saying they have no intentions of adding a manual ground balance to the machine.  I'm sure I'm not the first person to ask the question.

Nokta heard our voices when we said we'd like control over the iron bias on the Legend, and are willing to work on implementing it in the near future, what more could you ask from a manufacturer? It's really hard not to like Nokta as a brand, they may not be the best, yet... they might be one day and they're sure working hard to become the best.

For me the only reason I want adjustable iron bias is so I could do as close as I can to disabling it, it's not something someone that looks for small gold wants. 

I'm keeping my options open with the Legend, if the right coils come along for it and it proves to be competitive to the existing multi frequency machines I will buy it.  If they won't provide me coils or allow the aftermarket to do so and Nokta does, the choice is easy, I jump ship.

 

[cjc]

18 minutes ago, Chase Goldman said:

You lost me Clive.  The nailboard test does not test the effectiveness of iron bias, it tests recovery speed and can inform on the adverse impact iron bias can have on recovery/masking.  Good Legend performance on the nailboard test, does not mean the filter is effective against what it is supposed to do, which is to mitigate mixed ferrous falsing.  Or have I misunderstood your comment above?

Well, really I posted that video to show  that with machines with that much fidelity--these side by side tests don't mean much.  One day its one machine looking better in iron--the next day its the other...

c

[phrunt]

Here is Dilek's latest update on the Legend for those that don't use Facebook.  I've not had a chance to watch it yet but shes discussing the new Iron bios update they're going to make along with other things.

 

[phrunt]

Ok, watched the video now, fantastic, they've added a new beta firmware onto a production model that has an iron bias adjustment and now it slams on the dime next to the iron in a replicated version of Iffys video, so they've now seen the importance of the iron bias adjustment. It didn't take the engineers long to write the code to get iron bias adjustment.   The firmware is still in development and likely to get tweaked a bit yet but they've proven the point, likely by the time anyone gets a detector in their hands the new firmware will be available to download and update straight away.  Well done Nokta.

I'm very impressed Dilek.

[Calmark]

I think the positives of more user-adjustability with the new iron bias feature will in the long run outweigh any negatives of the one-size-fits-all approach of a factory set iron filter.  As long as the new feature does what it is supposed to, overall this is good news for Legend users, even if it makes for a steeper learning curve.  

[Cal_Cobra]

I totally understand where Nokta Makro are coming from.   If you look at their Racers, there's a lot going on behind the scenes that you don't have to fiddle with.  For me it works, for others, perhaps not.  I would say the same held true on the Multi Kruzer as well.  The XP Dues is a detector that I've followed since it's release, more as a technology curiosity than anything.  I remember when it was new, reading someone's post and they had a setting (reactivity I believe it was) set like half a point too far one way or the other and the site was dead.  They returned the next day and adjusted the reactivity half a point and the site lit up.  Perhaps I read too much into that.

Many sites may be a one time only deal, and/or are far away and I need to be on my A game out of the gate as much as possible  I don't want to spend valuable time if I don't have too fiddling around with settings to dial a machine in.  I like something that's a little more forgiving for sites full of unknown variables.

Some automation, if effective, is appreciated and it's progress IMHO.  That said, I certainly appreciate having the option of advanced settings for those times you may need them and applaud Nokta Makro for providing a feature customers were vocal about, even though it conformed to a different vision then they had planned.