Controls Are Dangerous, Keep Them Off Detectors

[☠ Cipher]

4 hours ago, Geotech said:

Ergo my curiosity about the acceptability of user levels.

When you look at the success of machines like the XP Deus, now the XP Deus 2, the FBS machines, it seems that if the raw performance is there users will accept, maybe even embrace a fair bit of complexity. I’m sure a lot depends on the UI organization and ease of navigation as well, but if a machine develops a reputation for being a beast, particularly right out of the box users will buy it. Some features make these machines a lot of fun to use, like the spectrograph on the V3i, target trace on the CTX, and even Ferrocheck would be a nice feature if it had a bit more range of effectiveness. I think a top end machine ought to have a color screen and graphics, and I don’t think it necessitates a lot of extra weight these days, or am I wrong on that? 

[Geotech]

The issue with color screens is power consumption & sunlight readability. Though I suppose that power consumption can turn into weight if larger batteries are required. The V3 pulled ~250mA and with 8-AA batteries would run about 8 hrs. Part of that was the low f of 2.5kHz. Don't go that low, use a new more efficient display, and use Li-Ion batteries and it probably lands in the 3-lb range.

 

[Steve Herschbach]

19 hours ago, ☠ Cipher said:

it seems that if the raw performance is there users will accept, maybe even embrace a fair bit of complexity.

If the raw performance is there, people will put up with almost anything. I told Minelab once, that when it came to nugget detectors, they could put spikes in the armrest. People would be in pain and bleeding, but as long as the machine detected nuggets deeper then anything else, they’d buy it. I was joking, but there is some truth in that.

Cell phones face the same issues with color screens and battery life, and no doubt solutions created there will find their way to metal detectors eventually. To me it’s not so much color though as advanced displays in general. I think the Whites SignaGraph and SpectraGraph systems were fabulous for identifying ferrous in particular, and just great for jewelry detecting. The Minelab 2D display, as exemplified in CTX 3030, is also pretty amazing. But it seems advanced display is dying out in favor of a simple, single target id number.

I won’t argue the virtues of those systems, but just observe that market demand does not seem to be enough to keep those systems available in any number, as models with them are declining, not increasing. Or it may be people want them, but as noted above, they can be left off, and people will still buy, as long as the machine otherwise performs. The problem is simple. Manufacturers copy what sells, and if something like an Equinox turns into a best seller, then everything starts looking like an Equinox. Kind of sucks, but that’s how it works. Long story short is V3i will probably go down in history as as high water mark of adjustability and display options, with the market now headed in exactly the opposite direction.

[GB_Amateur]

6 hours ago, Steve Herschbach said:

I think the Whites SignaGraph and SpectraGraph systems were fabulous for identifying ferrous in particular, and just great for jewelry detecting. The Minelab 2D display, as exemplified in CTX 3030, is also pretty amazing. But it seems advanced display is dying out in favor of a simple, single target id number.

I've wondered for years (not just since I joined here) if most people don't understand plots/graphs.  If this site is any indication, very few graphs are posted and when they are..., crickets.  (With exceptions, of course.)  That really seems to be the rule, not the exception.

I came very close to buying a V3i but got scared off by both the price and the weight.  As always, light weight without good balance is just as bad, probably worse than moderate to even heavy weight with good balance, so maybe on that feature my choice was unjustified.  I recall the VX3 didn't have as many graphics features as the V3i which soured me a bit on going with the lower cost option.

In the long run manufacturers deliver what customers want.  Even the worst offender ever (IMO), McDonalds, finally came around, but it took them 40+ years.  I think MD manufacturers have realized that the vast majority of customers don't want graphics so why go to the trouble and expense?  XP seems to be an exception at the moment, though.

[maxxkatt]

On 3/5/2022 at 12:29 PM, Steve Herschbach said:

A huge ruckus developed recently over the new Nokta Legend, and a debate over the desirability of an iron bias control. One main argument against such a control came up repeatedly. It’s too dangerous to include. The thought is it could be misadjusted by people who don’t know what they are doing, so it’s best left off.

Really? 

The sensitivity/gain, if set incorrectly, can cause lost targets.

Disc settings when set wrong, can cost lost targets.

Recovery speed, if set wrong, can cost lost targets.

Set the volume too loud, you can damage your hearing! 

That was my huge mistake moving from the AT Pro to the Nox 800. I thought I could use every advanced control without really, I mean really understanding what that control did and what it was designed for depending on hunt site conditions.

That cause me waste lots and lots of hours hunting with a very much detuned Nox 800. It ain't hard to detune and Nox 800 through ignorance. If you don't know what you are doing with these advanced controls use the standard modes that the minelab created with their vast knowledge of metal detecting engineering.