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A Week In Lake Havasu


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4 minutes ago, Bucksnboulders said:

Sorry guys I sure didn’t want to stir people up, I’m on my way down right now. When I get to Lake Havasu I’ll check back in. Thanks for all the information.

Ah don’t worry about it, certainly wasn’t your intent.  Here’s a great article you might want to read when you have time:

http://nuggetshooter.com/gold-along-the-colorado-river.html

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Bucksnboulders, I don't think you did. Clay is just stating the way things are, not necessarily how he feels about the ways things are, although he may. He has just the right to have his opinion and I will not slam him or anyone else for that. That is usually how the forum works.    

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2 hours ago, Clay Diggins said:

Now I know I'm just some guy on the internet and you quite clearly believe you know the laws of mineral trespass so I'm going to share some of the California laws about mining 

https://www.blm.gov/programs/energy-and-minerals/mining-and-minerals/locatable-minerals/mining-claims/staking-a-claim

You can’t pick and choose what regulations you choose to follow and which ones you don’t…. Maybe you could get away with that on state owned land, but I wouldn’t bank on it…. 

 

 

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3 hours ago, Clay Diggins said:

That's a foolish and counterproductive attitude Tom. It's always the prospectors legal duty to determine the status of any land they intend to prospect - that includes mining claim rights.

I see you are in California. Are you aware there is no legal requirement in California to maintain markers or signs indicating the boundaries or even the existence of a mining claim? Those are the "current regulations".

Mineral ownership (mining claims included) in California have the same status as any other real estate. Just like you aren't required to post a sign to keep people from entering your garage and "prospecting" for some nice tools there is no legal requirement to maintain signage on a mining claim. Under the law the only notice you need to provide to the general public is a record of the mining claim location notice recorded at the County Recorder's office. That single location notice public record legally puts the public on notice of your mineral rights. No signs or markers required.

Personally I think any mining claim worth owning is worth posting with notices informing the public of the mineral status. That's not a legal requirement in any state but as a practical matter it makes sense. Lets look at how that actually works in practice.

A placer claim can be as large as 160 acres. How many notices would the claimant have to post to make sure you know you are on a mining  claim? (Your stated standard) That probably depends on the terrain. Lets suppose that 160 acre claim is almost flat. How far away can you see a mining claim sign when you are wandering around prospecting on that claim? Can you read a sign 1/4 mile away? That's the distance between corners on a 160 acre claim. Now imagine the typical mining claim with it's many hills, washes and cliffs. How close together do the signs have to be then? A few hundred feet or less right? Now you are up to as many as 40 - 50 signs around that mining claim. Now imagine this very common situation where a range cow finally found a nice post to scratch that itch. The cow destroys your sign but dam it felt good to finally scratch that itch! This happens a lot. Is the claimant required to walk the mile boundary of their claim every day in case you show up prospecting and don't see the cow destroyed sign?

Now I know I'm just some guy on the internet and you quite clearly believe you know the laws of mineral trespass so I'm going to share some of the California laws about mining claims:

PUBLIC RESOURCES CODE
SECTION 3900-3924

3921.  The record of any location of a mining claim, millsite, or
tunnel right in the office of the county recorder, as provided in
this chapter, shall be received in evidence and have the same force
and effect in the courts of the state as the original notice.


3922.  Copies of the records of all instruments required to be
recorded by this chapter, duly certified by the recorder in whose
custody the records are, may be read in evidence under the same
circumstances and rules as are provided by law for using copies of
instruments relating to real estate, duly executed or acknowledged or
proved and recorded.

So yeah - mining claims are real estate. Taxable real estate in California. Entering someone else's real estate with the intent to take some of the real estate for yourself is theft under California law and every other state's laws. That pretty much covers the legal aspect of mineral high grading.

Now the part where I said your idea was foolish and counterproductive. That wasn't meant to be a comment on your character but a warning as to the eventual consequences of your ideas about mineral ownership. From your posts I see you are a casual prospector. Usually folks that pursue mining for recreation get their knowledge of how to prospect successfully and their knowledge of good gold areas from other casual prospectors. Quite often casual prospectors will share a location or even their own claim with other prospectors. If those other casual prospectors can't trust your knowledge of where it's OK to prospect why would they share the spots they have already researched and found open to prospecting? As any successful prospector knows the key to success is doing the research to put you on good gold on open ground before putting boots on the ground.

This legal requirement to determine the land status before you prospect is nothing new. It's just another skill needed by the successful prospector. Prospectors in the 1880's were able to meet that requirement by traveling to and studying the paper records so there is no reason a modern prospector can't do the same thing more easily. With online public records and resources like Land Matters that necessary research step is easier than it ever has been before.

Maybe rethink your theory in light of the facts. It's the legal thing to do but more importantly respecting other people's property is the right thing to do.

 

So, using that logic, a person could get on line behind a computer screen and file a claim without ever having to leave home….right?

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Looking forward to seeing that part of Az myself, have a great time!

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1 minute ago, Tom T said:

https://www.blm.gov/programs/energy-and-minerals/mining-and-minerals/locatable-minerals/mining-claims/staking-a-claim

You can’t pick and choose what regulations you choose to follow and which ones you don’t…. Maybe you could get away with that on state owned land, but I wouldn’t bank on it…. 

 

 

I don't see anything in your link that says a locator has to maintain their monuments or stakes. Of course that's just an informational graphic and isn't a law or regulation.

That link does have this little gem:

"Most states have statutes and regulations concerning the actual staking and recording of mining claims so claimants should refer to the appropriate state agency for additional requirements before locating a claim."

So here we go back to the state laws to find out what the State laws on staking claims are.

3902.  The location of a placer claim shall be made in the following
manner:
   (a) By erecting at the point of discovery thereon a conspicuous
and substantial monument, and by posting in or on the monument a
notice of location containing all of the following:
   (1) The name of the claim.
   (2) The name, current mailing address or current residence
address, of the locator.
   (3) The date of the location, which shall be the date of posting
the notice.
   (4) The number of feet or acreage claimed.
   (5) A description of the claim by reference to some natural object
or permanent monument as will identify the claim located.
   (b) By marking the boundaries so that they may be readily traced
and by erecting at each corner of the claim, or at the nearest
accessible points thereto, a conspicuous and substantial monument.
Each corner monument shall bear or contain markings sufficient to
appropriately designate the corner of the mining claim to which it
pertains and the name of the claim.
   Where the United States survey has been extended over the land
embraced in the location, the claim may be taken by legal
subdivisions and no other reference than those of the survey shall be
required, and the boundaries of a claim so located and described
need not be staked or monumented. The description by legal
subdivisions shall be deemed the equivalent of marking.

 

 California State law says most Federal Placer Mining Claims don't need to be staked or monumented but they must be recorded. Many other mining states have the same location laws.

So now you have legal placer mining claims that were never required to place a monument or corner stakes. Once again we see that the only public source of mining claim location information is found within the records held at the county recorder. Not on the ground, not at the state and not at the federal level. It's been that way for more than 100 years.

And NO you can not locate a mining claim by sitting behind a computer. I never implied that so I'm not sure what logic you are seeing in my writing. The laws are clear that you must first discover a valuable mineral deposit on lands open to location within the bounds you intend to claim. If you haven't done that you can't locate a claim. Mining isn't done on a computer.

I hope that clears things up for you Tom. If not I would be happy to discuss this further with you, perhaps in another thread? It's considered rude to hijack someones thread to discuss a subject that wasn't brought up by the original poster. Lets let Bucksnboulders have his thread back. :smile:

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4 hours ago, GhostMiner said:

We need more people like Clay for sure. 

100% on the mark...

 

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I am actually a paid member of my land matter's and get the report now that the new system is in place. Unfortunately I'm too old and uneducated to even open it. Most of my time has been spent in Utah on club claims and Osciola, Nevada on a friends claim. I have yet to find a nugget with my Gold Pro, so I thought this may be the best chance I will have to actually look for something big enough to find. I just pulled in to Lake Havasu for my first time ever, This vacation with my wife daughter and two 10 year old boys was sprung on me at the last minute, leaving me little to no time to search claim status in an area I know nothing about. It's not that big of a deal, I will only have one or two days at the most to look around and joining a club for $140.00 for a day of detecting is a little out of my price range. Maybe I'll take Swegin up on hunting for a meteorite and leave my Gold pro in its bag and take it home. It was a foolish investment living in Utah with nothing more than flour gold to find but I had fun in Nevada pretending I might LOL: Thanks for all the reply's and sorry for string up the masses.

IMG_2102 (1).JPG

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From Clay's posting:

"...How far away can you see a mining claim sign when you are wandering around prospecting on that claim? Can you read a sign 1/4 mile away? That's the distance between corners on a 160 acre claim. ..."

 

You made an excellent, well-written posting, Clay, but you have one minor math error. (I'm sure someone else will correct me if I'm wrong.)

If 160 acres is in the shape of a square, the distance from one corner to an adjacent corner is 1/2 mile, not 1/4 mile. So that makes your point even stronger -- it's much too far to read any sign on the next corner.

Here's the math. One square mile is 640 acres. (Look it up.) Imagine a plot of land that's square, one mile on each side. That's one  square mile. Divide it into quarters. Each square is one quarter of 640 acres, or 160 acres.  Each edge is 1/2 mile long on each 160 acre plot.

As I said, it's only a minor correction I'm making, but it makes your point even better because the distance is doubled.

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