Lower Rod Flex?

[Steve Herschbach]

If it's normal, I'll be using an aftermarket shaft. Calling steveg!

[NCtoad]

I don’t notice much if any flex at all in mine with the 9” coil.  However I’m 5’10” and don’t extend the lower rod much past the #1 mark.  

[steveg]

Steve, and others...

Thanks for the interest!

I've had a number of customers raising this issue with me.  It seems there's fairly great demand for a Deus shaft replacement, with stiff/sturdy carbon fiber and high-quality cam locks.  Since this is exactly what I try to provide my customers with, it would seem that this would be "right up my alley."

The PROBLEM(S) are this, when considering the production of a Deus/Deus II...

1.  NON-ROUND SHAFTS...

To make a long story short, production of non-round carbon-fiber tubes is costly; there's a rather large up-front cost, as a non-round tube requires a mold for production, and then the cost of the molded tubes themselves are MUCH higher than round tubes.  Additionally, a non-round tube requires a matching, non-round cam lock, matching non-round shaft fittings, etc. -- all of which require their own injection molds to be produced.  

2.  NON-STANDARD COIL EAR...

One of the two coil ears of the Deus has that "proprietary" non-round "plug" that fits through one side of the coil ear, and that plug "mates" to a "cavity" on one side of the Deus lower rod "clevis" or "head."  This makes production of a "proper" lower rod piece more difficult than your basic clevis.

3.  THE CONTROL-BOX MOUNT...

The Deus uses that "proprietary" mounting system for the control box, where the back of the control box "mates" to the front of the "mount," and that mount -- again -- is designed to fit in the Deus non-round shaft.  This is another custom component that would have to be "replicated" for use with an aftermarket Deus shaft.

4.  THE DESIGN ITSELF...

The really cool "collapsible" design of the Deus, where there are "cam locks" integrated into the S-handle, and the shaft "slides through" the handle for collapsibility, is not easily replicated.

NOW, some of these hurdles could be overcome, by avoiding use of the non-round tubes, and building a replacement shaft with standard, round carbon-fiber tubes.  On the positive side, this would allow use of my current cam lock (thus no new cam lock injection mold needed), and would also easier-to-produce "round" shaft fittings (the lower rod piece, etc.)  The lower rod "head" or "clevis," as long as it is round, could have the "cavity" for the "coil ear plug" to be machined into it, so that hurdle could be overcome as well.  I have considered the possibility of adapting my new "S-shaft" design, for use with the Deus.

HOWEVER, points 3 and 4 above remain challenges, even given that I now have that S-shaft design.  For point 3 -- a control box mount would have to be custom-designed -- one that would both A.) fit onto my S-handle, and B.) mate properly with the Deus control box.  Then, for point 4 -- customers would have to be willing to forego the "collapsibility" offered by the Deus shaft design, as my S-shaft does not allow the tubes to "slide through the handle" for the easy collapsibility offered by the Deus.

I have been thinking alot about this, and trying to find solutions to these issues, but there's really no way to get around the fact that no matter how I slice it, this would be a very expensive shaft to produce (in terms of purchase price), as production would require substantial up-front investment.   The Deus shaft is a much more "proprietary" shaft than many others, making a proper, high-quality replacement shaft a very high hurdle to overcome.  I will continue pondering it...

Thanks all!

Steve

[palzynski]

9 hours ago, Ogliuga said:

I have a friend of mine who always takes D2 to the sea, both on the shoreline and in the first meter of water. Recently ha has told me that the lower rod suffers a lot from friction with water. He’s 1.90 tall and has to stretch the rod a lot..he's disappointed and worried about that. By the way he uses the 11”..

I confirm that the Deus1/2 standard shaft is too short for persons over 1,80m tall . At 1.80m the lower rod starts to wobble because it is set at its limits . Clearly I am 1.83m and the D2 shaft is a little too short for me.

I heard that there was an XP optional longer mid shaft available as an accessory . It would solve the pb but I dont see it on the XP internet site. Will ask to my dealer ..

[palzynski]

2 hours ago, steveg said:

...
NOW, some of these hurdles could be overcome, by avoiding use of the non-round tubes, and building a replacement shaft with standard, round carbon-fiber tubes.  On the positive side, this would allow use of my current cam lock (thus no new cam lock injection mold needed), and would also easier-to-produce "round" shaft fittings (the lower rod piece, etc.)  The lower rod "head" or "clevis," as long as it is round, could have the "cavity" for the "coil ear plug" to be machined into it, so that hurdle could be overcome as well.  I have considered the possibility of adapting my new "S-shaft" design, for use with the Deus.
...
 

Yes non round or round shafts has no importance I think . I think people just need a light collabsible carbon S shaft for the Deus suitable for all persons including tall ones , wether the rods are round or not ..

One other thing I noticed on the Deus shaft is that the rear shaft is too short ( I mean the distance between the handle and the arm cuff ). Would be a good idea if this distance could be adjusted by the user , which is not the case with the current XP shaft..

But simply providing a new lower shaft would still be a great improvement for the users . I mean a carbon lower shaft longer than the current XP shaft  . It would solve the "wobbly" issue and could be used by tall persons ...   NM has an optional carbon lower shaft for the Simplex and a carbon lower shaft on the Legend btw ...

[NCtoad]

5 hours ago, steveg said:

Steve, and others...

Thanks for the interest!

I've had a number of customers raising this issue with me.  It seems there's fairly great demand for a Deus shaft replacement, with stiff/sturdy carbon fiber and high-quality cam locks.  Since this is exactly what I try to provide my customers with, it would seem that this would be "right up my alley."

The PROBLEM(S) are this, when considering the production of a Deus/Deus II...

1.  NON-ROUND SHAFTS...

To make a long story short, production of non-round carbon-fiber tubes is costly; there's a rather large up-front cost, as a non-round tube requires a mold for production, and then the cost of the molded tubes themselves are MUCH higher than round tubes.  Additionally, a non-round tube requires a matching, non-round cam lock, matching non-round shaft fittings, etc. -- all of which require their own injection molds to be produced.  

2.  NON-STANDARD COIL EAR...

One of the two coil ears of the Deus has that "proprietary" non-round "plug" that fits through one side of the coil ear, and that plug "mates" to a "cavity" on one side of the Deus lower rod "clevis" or "head."  This makes production of a "proper" lower rod piece more difficult than your basic clevis.

3.  THE CONTROL-BOX MOUNT...

The Deus uses that "proprietary" mounting system for the control box, where the back of the control box "mates" to the front of the "mount," and that mount -- again -- is designed to fit in the Deus non-round shaft.  This is another custom component that would have to be "replicated" for use with an aftermarket Deus shaft.

4.  THE DESIGN ITSELF...

The really cool "collapsible" design of the Deus, where there are "cam locks" integrated into the S-handle, and the shaft "slides through" the handle for collapsibility, is not easily replicated.

NOW, some of these hurdles could be overcome, by avoiding use of the non-round tubes, and building a replacement shaft with standard, round carbon-fiber tubes.  On the positive side, this would allow use of my current cam lock (thus no new cam lock injection mold needed), and would also easier-to-produce "round" shaft fittings (the lower rod piece, etc.)  The lower rod "head" or "clevis," as long as it is round, could have the "cavity" for the "coil ear plug" to be machined into it, so that hurdle could be overcome as well.  I have considered the possibility of adapting my new "S-shaft" design, for use with the Deus.

HOWEVER, points 3 and 4 above remain challenges, even given that I now have that S-shaft design.  For point 3 -- a control box mount would have to be custom-designed -- one that would both A.) fit onto my S-handle, and B.) mate properly with the Deus control box.  Then, for point 4 -- customers would have to be willing to forego the "collapsibility" offered by the Deus shaft design, as my S-shaft does not allow the tubes to "slide through the handle" for the easy collapsibility offered by the Deus.

I have been thinking alot about this, and trying to find solutions to these issues, but there's really no way to get around the fact that no matter how I slice it, this would be a very expensive shaft to produce (in terms of purchase price), as production would require substantial up-front investment.   The Deus shaft is a much more "proprietary" shaft than many others, making a proper, high-quality replacement shaft a very high hurdle to overcome.  I will continue pondering it...

Thanks all!

Steve

Suppose you could somehow manufacture a rod just like the OEM rod but with carbon fiber and improved cam locks and no flex. Don’t you think you’d sell a whole lot if them?   Even if your setup cost say $350, I’d bet they’d sell like hotcakes.  Look what the beach guys are spending on scoops. 

[Chase Goldman]

6 hours ago, steveg said:

A.) fit onto my S-handle, and B.) mate properly with the Deus control box

Here's an idea based on an eBay listing...these are hard to get given the situation in the Ukraine.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bracket-for-Mounting-XP-DEUS-XP-ORX-Metal-Detectors-Control-Unit-on-any-Rod-/264321571573

[DanU]

Are you guys seeing the wobble in the water or just in general use?  I extend mine to the 4 1/2 mark on the lower shaft and haven't notice any wobble.  But I haven't used it in the water yet.  I am waiting for the 9 inch coil, the longer shaft and the bone conducting headphones to become available before water (wading) use and the dive shaft for diving.

[CPT_GhostLight]

8 hours ago, steveg said:

Steve, and others...

Thanks for the interest!

I've had a number of customers raising this issue with me.  It seems there's fairly great demand for a Deus shaft replacement, with stiff/sturdy carbon fiber and high-quality cam locks.  Since this is exactly what I try to provide my customers with, it would seem that this would be "right up my alley."

The PROBLEM(S) are this, when considering the production of a Deus/Deus II...

1.  NON-ROUND SHAFTS...

To make a long story short, production of non-round carbon-fiber tubes is costly; there's a rather large up-front cost, as a non-round tube requires a mold for production, and then the cost of the molded tubes themselves are MUCH higher than round tubes.  Additionally, a non-round tube requires a matching, non-round cam lock, matching non-round shaft fittings, etc. -- all of which require their own injection molds to be produced.  

2.  NON-STANDARD COIL EAR...

One of the two coil ears of the Deus has that "proprietary" non-round "plug" that fits through one side of the coil ear, and that plug "mates" to a "cavity" on one side of the Deus lower rod "clevis" or "head."  This makes production of a "proper" lower rod piece more difficult than your basic clevis.

3.  THE CONTROL-BOX MOUNT...

The Deus uses that "proprietary" mounting system for the control box, where the back of the control box "mates" to the front of the "mount," and that mount -- again -- is designed to fit in the Deus non-round shaft.  This is another custom component that would have to be "replicated" for use with an aftermarket Deus shaft.

4.  THE DESIGN ITSELF...

The really cool "collapsible" design of the Deus, where there are "cam locks" integrated into the S-handle, and the shaft "slides through" the handle for collapsibility, is not easily replicated.

NOW, some of these hurdles could be overcome, by avoiding use of the non-round tubes, and building a replacement shaft with standard, round carbon-fiber tubes.  On the positive side, this would allow use of my current cam lock (thus no new cam lock injection mold needed), and would also easier-to-produce "round" shaft fittings (the lower rod piece, etc.)  The lower rod "head" or "clevis," as long as it is round, could have the "cavity" for the "coil ear plug" to be machined into it, so that hurdle could be overcome as well.  I have considered the possibility of adapting my new "S-shaft" design, for use with the Deus.

HOWEVER, points 3 and 4 above remain challenges, even given that I now have that S-shaft design.  For point 3 -- a control box mount would have to be custom-designed -- one that would both A.) fit onto my S-handle, and B.) mate properly with the Deus control box.  Then, for point 4 -- customers would have to be willing to forego the "collapsibility" offered by the Deus shaft design, as my S-shaft does not allow the tubes to "slide through the handle" for the easy collapsibility offered by the Deus.

I have been thinking alot about this, and trying to find solutions to these issues, but there's really no way to get around the fact that no matter how I slice it, this would be a very expensive shaft to produce (in terms of purchase price), as production would require substantial up-front investment.   The Deus shaft is a much more "proprietary" shaft than many others, making a proper, high-quality replacement shaft a very high hurdle to overcome.  I will continue pondering it...

Thanks all!

Steve

Hey SteveG, I saw these online and thought of you. I don’t know if this could be adapted somehow to the S-shaft or for a mount to the straight shaft and these are for Deus 1 and Orx, so I don’t know if they would work for the D2, but maybe they would give you some ideas.

Deus Remote Adapter

 

[Guest Dug]

The carbon fiber Simplex lower fits the Deus upper. Just need to figure out how to hold the coil.