The Deus 2, A Project Of Many Years

[phrunt]

I sometimes think we or at least I don't give metal detector manufacturers enough credit for how much work actually goes into making our metal detectors, I think this is partially because they seem to make mistakes with the most simple of things like shafts twisting on brand new detectors when doing nothing out of the ordinary or coil ears breaking because they're made of the worlds thinnest plastic for no real reason, really stupid things that gives the impression there must be some foolish people involved with development.  I've experienced it myself with my Equinox shaft being wobbly, my CTX ears breaking on a few month old 17" coil, a Pro Sonic with an upside down decal, a Simplex with a wobbly shaft that I had to buy a replacement carbon fiber shaft to fix, a Gold Monster that's shaft kept coming unscrewed when using it since day 1, a GPZ that sometimes completely loses audio changing from normal to difficult or back, and when I contact Minelab about it they say yes it's a bug in the software, I asked if it's going to be fixed, and I get told it's not, the list goes on and on and I could keep going.

Then there is the other side of it, the electronics involved and that's where the magic to me happens and perhaps its where the manufacturers put in a majority of the effort, well I sure hope it is as the other side of the products can be quite dismal.  Most brands seem to suffer from similar traits, weak or poorly designed housings and leaks with dodgy shafts being the most common, which pass all tests from by the manufacturer with flying colours only to demonstrate their weakness in the first few weeks once they're in users’ hands, sometimes its software issues with firmware updates being rush out only days or weeks after a detectors release.   It's lucky they use crash test dummies and thoroughly test cars differently to how they test metal detectors or we'd be driving cars that's chassis buckles going over a speed bump leaving the car sales yard or the speedometer is too small for many to see and stereo systems where the backlight turns off 1 second after you press a button so you can't see what you're trying to do 🙂   Or perhaps self-driving cars that have software glitches causing them to crash, oh, wait....

Jokes over, I quite like XP's style, they don't flood the market with a lot of the same detector under various names with a different blast of paint and some slight modifications, new detectors are few and far between but when one does come out it's vastly different than the previous model.  Such is the case with the Deus 2 over the first implementation.
I was stumbling around doing my research as I'm looking for a reason to buy a Deus 2, so far, I've not found one but at least I'm trying 🙂  I found just how long the Deus 2 has been in development, or at least an indication of how long, back in April 2016 XP (Sarl Xplorer) as they seem to be called according to the box of my MI-4 Pinpointer and their trademark applications they filed for a Trademark on the name "FMF FAST MULTI FREQUENCY".  This means they were likely already making and testing a "Fast" multi frequency detector back in 2016, and it was finally released as we know in 2022.  That is at least a 6-year development cycle, I would guess quite a bit longer seeing they already had the foresight to call it Fast multi frequency.

Here is their FMF trademark information

You can see the full thing here: https://uspto.report/TM/79189696

It makes a little more sense now that when Nokta first announced they were making the Legend way back a few years ago with a naming contest it was quite premature doing so when detectors like this obviously take years in development, at least to make a good one as we found out by the years of waiting for the Legend to come to market after its announcement, likely some bizarre marketing decision to start the hype building long before its release I guess, my brain doesn't work as a marketing person, their decisions never make much sense to me.

I guess I'm being a bit premature being excited about Nokta's Gold PI too, as we've seen with the First Texas attempt at a PI water machine and gold machine years in development before release seems a normal practice, it's just with companies like XP and Minelab we don't really hear about it until it's near ready, I think that is the best approach in the end as both the Legend and First Texas PI release methods have caused quite a lot of frustration with it seems to be a large part of their potential customer base, often it's forgiven quickly when the final product comes out but it's best not to cause the ruckus in the first place.

Nokta's rightly checking what prospectors want in a PI, and market research is a wise thing to do for a brand that's not currently in that market space and I'm very pleased they're doing that, and hopefully lessons have been learnt from the Legend release.

Minelab seem to keep their releases quite secretive, at least from me, First Texas releases just breeze past me as they're been so regular, they're probably up to the F75 Version 15 Update 2 Boost enhanced version 3.6 by now, I wonder how many F75 fans have 15 F75's if they upgrade to each new version.  Their product line is a bit of an overload so nobody cares anymore.  Garrett's due for a high end SMF, not a peep out of them but it just has to be coming, hopefully soon but better not rushed, and judging by how long XP worked on theirs, it may be a while yet, hopefully the adage good things come to those who wait applies here as I'd like Garrett to have a successful SMF, I really like the look of the Apex.

[palzynski]

1 hour ago, phrunt said:

I sometimes think we or at least I don't give metal detector manufacturers enough credit for how much work actually goes into making our metal detectors, I think this is partially because they seem to make mistakes with the most simple of things like shafts twisting on brand new detectors when doing nothing out of the ordinary or coil ears breaking because they're made of the worlds thinnest plastic for no real reason, really stupid things that gives the impression there must be some foolish people involved with development.  ...

Probably because there are more electronics engineers than mechanical engineers in the MD companies ... This is perhaps the reason why we often have mechanical issues with our machines ... ( twisting shafts , fragile parts etc .. )

Hopefully MD mechanical issues can often be solved by the users themselves ... For example replacing a twisting lower shaft by a carbon shaft is relatively easy to do .  It is an other story when it is an electronics issue and the detector has often to be sent back to the after service ... 

 

[F350Platinum]

Great read Phrunt. All I can add is that if one manufacturer made a flawless device, it would probably end the world. 🤣 🤯

So far I've had no issues with my Equinox, but I did customize the heck out of it.

When an industry gets big enough it often becomes necessary or prudent to "standardize", look at personal computing. I think the cellphone industry could benefit from that as well as it expands the market especially for small companies. I could buy a Mac or a Windows laptop and interchange some of the parts, and the OS will or could work on both.

Take for example that project to move the works of a metal detector to a cell phone. While it isn't going very well the idea is pretty cool, all you need is a generic shaft and wireless coil of some type, and you could use any app you want. 🤔 However, this also makes the market full of devices that are marginal at best, and we've been seeing a lot of that lately. 😵

The switch to the Deus 2 (and I still plan to keep my Equinox) is quite a change. I'm not afraid of complex devices, and it's been fun so far getting to know it. I'm seeing that had I bought the first Deus instead of the Equinox I'd have an easier time of it but it's going to be a fun challenge.

Ok now I'm gonna duck and cover. 😎

[strick]

Nice write up phrunt. There is something special in this deus 2 I am digging out my test garden these past several days (need to plant a new one) and the Deus 2 seems to be doing really well finding all the targets even the ones in nails...it beat the nox with 10x5 coil yesterday on a deep targets with nails... This is just one dummies observation 

strick

[phrunt]

I like that the Deus 2 is so different to the Nox, XP already had a detector that was different to the rest, and they've further developed those strengths and added multi frequency so they're truly forging their own path.  I see them a bit like Apple, with the fancy designs and ergonomics with wireless everything.  For someone with a Nox buying the Deus 2 really gives them something different, something they don't already have, and it excels where the Nox doesn't, so that's why I find it the most interesting of the two new detectors, it's not just a cheaper detector with similar traits and a likely better build quality.  My initial post was largely due to my surprise just how long these detectors spend in development and how much I appreciate these manufacturers putting this much effort into making the electronics to give us these wonderful detectors, it also puzzled me even more why they stuff up the most simple things when it comes to the physical components when so much time and effort goes into making the electronics and the Deus 2 isn't immune to this, the shaft seems a bit flawed, the headphones a bit weak and so on, especially for the price.

I've thought hard and long on this and I see no point buying a Legend unless it gets coils that suit me, coils that would make a difference for my needs over the coils I've already got for my Nox and sadly as Nel is now no longer making coils  for the foreseeable future this may never take place.  So It'd take Nokta to make a solid 10x5" and epoxy filled 6.5x3.5 solid coil for my ears to prick up, especially if concentric coils were in the mix.  Hopefully Detech make their 13" Ultimate coil for it, that'd get me a bit excited and could tip me over.

This is where I see the Legend having a massive advantage over the very coil limited Deus 2 and the also to a smaller degree the semi coil limited Nox, the Deus 2 platform would be fantastic if it wasn't the Deus 2 platform, if it was a standard detector having the performance of the Deus 2 where I could just pop on a coil I want and be off detecting.  It's flaw to me is its very design in the first place.  I just want to be able to pay the price for a VLF coil and pop another coil on and go detecting, I don't want to have to buy another very expensive Deus 2 coil from a very limited range of coils that don't even suit me in the first place, they can't even physically make the size coils I want due to limitations of the platform fitting the electronics in the coil.  I'm fortunate I don't live in an area littered with iron trash and have concerns about nails being nested with my coin finds so that isn't really part of my decision thought process but I understand it is for a lot of people.  The limited amount of coils the Deus 2 has are still a sacrifice they have to make.

The Legend development cycle seemed smaller than the Deus 2, September 2018 Nokta started their naming contest saying they've started working on a SMF machine, XP trademarked FMF in April 2016 showing development was going back then.

I loved watching this old Deus 1 video showing glimpses of the XP factory, very impressive, I assume Nokta would be similar.

I guess in a way this leaves me likely waiting for another brand to make my next detector seeing I'm being so fussy.  I'm just thinking out loud, I hate missing out on the newest detectors and all the fun of playing around with them, but I also don't want to waste a heap of money on detectors I don't really need as they'll provide me little benefit.

[GB_Amateur]

5 hours ago, phrunt said:

...It also puzzled me even more why they stuff up the most simple things when it comes to the physical components when so much time and effort goes into making the electronics and the Deus 2 isn't immune to this, the shaft seems a bit flawed, the headphones a bit weak and so on, especially for the price.

There may be an obvious answer -- the consumer doesn't really care.  How many people failed to buy an Equinox because of the leaky control units and breaking coil mounts?

First Texas's Tekenetics T2 (and later, Fisher F75) were the best ergonomic detectors ever (and that includes things like proper placement of headphone jack adjustable arm cuff, properly located pinpoint activation switch, easily accessed on/off button and volume control pot).  I don't think anyone, including First Texas, has gotten there since.  (Balance, maybe, but the rest?  Not that I'm aware of.)

I constantly remind myself that what we read here is written by detectorists who are so far removed from the average occasional detector user.  If no one who posts here ever bought another detector I wonder if the manufactureres bottom lines would move a noticeable amount.  Yet we continue to buy these ergonomically flawed units, so they don't have to be concerned even if it would.

[phrunt]

I would hope it's not that they just don't care, I'm lost for a reason these problems exist, the CTX is what, a decade old now and it has the same weak ears problem as the Equinox and now the Vanquish so lessons appear to not to learnt, in that case perhaps it is they just don't care, there is no other way to explain it.  Maybe now they've got some stiff competition they'll care more about the simple things.

The T2 platform had some serious flaws in my opinion, the on/off/volume knob was in a bad spot for right handed detectorists which I would assume statistically would be a larger percentage of users as it kept rubbing on your leg when you swing it, you often bump your volume knob, well I do anyway 🙂  Navigating the menus was a bit annoying using the knob too but love the pinpoint switch although the knobs and switches would be considered old fashioned now on a new detector.

The other flaw was their weird offset to the rear coil mount, I've never understood that and don't like it at all, it just feels awkward, but again that could just be me.  Aside from those problems the T2 is a joy to swing, probably my favourite design detector.

[Joe D.]

   Great post Simon, and responses from the rest of you soil beaters! 

   Not so much the money this time around, with the new detectors; although, it is always a factor! More in the way of too many detectors, which i need to focus on "thinning the heard"! But that is tough for a horder like me!😁

   I'm still having trouble deciding how to thin out my fish tank fish, as they keep multiplying!😳 Can't even give them away! Either a flush, fertilizer, or a predator introduction! "Tough" decision!🤣

   But probably more than anything, I'm waiting to see more real world use for both, and coil choices too! If I really think I need either, or something else forthcoming, I can bring myself to sell some truly nice "gently used" inventory at some point!👍👍

[Valens Legacy]

Great read again Simon, as I think you do a lot of thinking and research when you write an article like this.

Thanks for sharing your views on this subject, as some of us are new and don't know shi* about some of the detectors like me. Sure I got my grandfathers NOX and have found some nice items with it, but I still am learning how to metal detect.

1 hour ago, Joe D. said:

I'm still having trouble deciding how to thin out my fish tank fish, as they keep multiplying!😳 Can't even give them away! Either a flush, fertilizer, or a predator introduction!

Be nice or I might call PETA on you.

[palzynski]

17 hours ago, phrunt said:

...This is where I see the Legend having a massive advantage over the very coil limited Deus 2 and the also to a smaller degree the semi coil limited Nox ...

You could try a Deus1 , then you would have the coil set that you need including the excellent small 9X5 coil.
Btw there are tons of second hand D1s for sale at low prices starting from 400E/$ at the moment ...